QC added to hive with eggs - how to ensure I get the queen I want?

[ksjs]

OK, mid manipulation (quite a stressful one) it dawned on me that my great plan wasn't so great. Essentially I wanted to add a sealed QC to a hive which is producing queen cells in an effort to avoid swarming.

Process was as follows:
1. Locate queen in hive 1 and put her, some bees and some stores in a nuc.
2. Cull the 2 unsealed queen cells I had left in this hive during my inspection on Monday. I subsequently decided I don't want these as the mother isn't proving to be the best.
3. Locate 1 of the 2 sealed queen cells (I 'know' these are OK as I saw them when they were unsealed) in hive 2 (which just recently swarmed) and transfer this to hive 1.

I did all that and then realised that as I'd just removed the queen from hive 1 there would be eggs such that emergency QC can be produced. The sealed QC I have just transferred is due to hatch during next few days (it was unsealed last Wed and I reckon it was between 4 and 7 days old at that point - the reason for lack of uncertainty on age is that of the 2 unsealed QC that I selected 1 was a bit older and 1 was a bit younger but I didn't note which was which). The earliest it can hatch is therefore tomorrow but I reckon it will be a few days yet.

I want to stop them producing emergency QC so I need to inspect yet I don't want to upset the hatching / mating of the queen I have transferred. What are my options? What are the likely scenarios if I do nothing i.e. they get a new virgin in a few days and they don't currently have a queen, meanwhile they've been producing emergency QC?

I know I've made a mistake here and got a bit ahead of myself so go easy please...

 

[Finman]

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A queen you want? No one can promise it to you.


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[ksjs]

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A queen you want? No one can promise it to you.
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I'll make do with the one I've just transferred!

 

[enrico]

Ok.....what I would do now.....is mark the frame with the cell on, in five days time I would check that frame only and see what has happened to that cell, is it still sealed, has it been torn down, is it open etc. based on that I would then decide wether to inspect further for queen cells or expect a mating flight. At the end of the day if it all goes wrong you still have your old queen!
E

 

[ksjs]

Ok.....what I would do now.....is mark the frame with the cell on, in five days time I would check that frame only and see what has happened to that cell, is it still sealed, has it been torn down, is it open etc. based on that I would then decide wether to inspect further for queen cells or expect a mating flight. At the end of the day if it all goes wrong you still have your old queen!
E

Great, cheers - I'd pretty much decided that I'd take a 'risk' and have a look in a few* days, this would be late in the day and therefore everyone including the newly hatched queen (if she has hatched) should be at home.

*Why 5 days and not 4 or 6 for example? We're looking for emergency QC so they need time to draw out the cell, feed the larva. I'd imagine that's anywhere between day 5 and 7 based on the diagrams I've seen of QC development. I would have thought however that more time was better i.e. nothing new can hatch before 16 days and the longer you wait the more obvious any emergency cell would be hence wait for 7 days?

 

[enrico]

Because 5 is the earliest, if the weather is foul you can put it off for a day or two with no adverse affect!

 

[ksjs]

Because 5 is the earliest, if the weather is foul you can put it off for a day or two with no adverse affect!

Of course!

 

[For want of a better word]

Then also beware of the little darhlings secreting a queen cell where you did not seen it!

 

[Hawklord]

I would leave them alone for 2-3 weeks, otherwise your new queen might get balled.

 

[ksjs]

I would leave them alone for 2-3 weeks, otherwise your new queen might get balled.

But the point of this is swarm control / not losing bees. Surely if I leave them (and so allow production of emergency QC) and they're in a mood to swarm, which they are, then there's every chance that they'll swarm at some point?

Actually I've just made myself wonder about everything I've done... essentially all I did was remove their queen, remove some brood, remove some nurse bees, cull all QC and add a sealed QC. Have I actually done anything / enough to reduce the swarm impulse? When I think about it no because nothing material has changed. I know I have taken the queen away but I have also replaced her - is it sufficient that I have added a NEW queen with different pheremone, at a different age etc? The books say all you have to do is remove one the 3 elements (queen, brood, flying bees) for effective swarm control but thinking about this it doesn't make lots of sense unless of course it's down to subtle stuff that the new queen brings that I have no real feel for (as I'm not a bee!)