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Prolific strain????

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Why do people import or try to breed a bee that will reproduce to such an extent that the standard brood box is not big enough? I can't think that having 22 frames of brood frames is easier than working through 2 hives having 11 frames each. Yes there is the cost but I can't see 1 huge colony collecting more honey than 2 colonies at half that size.
 

Poly Hive 

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Well sorry to say but you need an optician as a large colony will out produce two small ones hands down, that's the way it is.

And as a by the by there is a maximum size of winter cluster too, too big and they do not do as well as a smaller one.. odd innit?

PH
 

jon 

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Well sorry to say but you need an optician as a large colony will out produce two small ones hands down, that's the way it is.

PH
It will also consume twice as much when there is not a flow on.
Big colonies win under optimum forage and weather conditions but may need feeding at other times.

I have just one colony on double brood after uniting two colonies. After an inspection last friday where I couldn't find a marked queen I will not be going down that route. It's twice the work. If we get a couple of weeks of good weather I will be curious to see how it brings in the nectar compared to my others which are in a single brood. My local mongrels are happy with 9 or 10 frames of brood and the winter cluster is over about 4 frames. Less is more, I say.
 

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Why do people import a bee that will reproduce to such an extent that the standard brood box is not big enough?
Because thats all the main importers have to sell ?
 

hedgerow pete 

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becarefull the words you speak are of treachery, you will end up beheaded and drawn and quartered. I am to a unlover of doubles for more than one reason, but more and more breeders are going blindly down this route so i still have my amm strain, yep there are many down sides to them and production is not the best but and for me its the main reason i like the way they breed and harvest and i can control them were as i seem to reed about more and more people failing to tame them, there are many other and personaly better bees for newbees to start with than these super bees that turn into monsters, or is it just me?
 

jezd 

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becarefull the words you speak are of treachery, you will end up beheaded and drawn and quartered. I am to a unlover of doubles for more than one reason, but more and more breeders are going blindly down this route so i still have my amm strain, yep there are many down sides to them and production is not the best but and for me its the main reason i like the way they breed and harvest and i can control them were as i seem to reed about more and more people failing to tame them, there are many other and personaly better bees for newbees to start with than these super bees that turn into monsters, or is it just me?
Pete, how do you maintain this? unless you are isolated geographically and don’t also have other none 'amm' strains within x miles then how can you say they are amm?

Cheers

Jez
 

hedgerow pete 

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people have been banging on for the last sixty years that you can only breed bees on a island that is south facing all day with left handed bee keepers with two wooden legs and three eyes and webbed feet, and frankly i dont care

i breed bees , queen bees and when i have ten sets i then stick them into ten nucs, with me so far? after three months of playing with these bees i either squish the bad ones or unwanted ones , swap them with the old queens from the big hives the old queens then stay in the nucs till next year when they are sqashed when the next ten new queens come along, still with me?
there are many wild colonys in birmingham as it happens but not to many beekeepers so its all hit and miss thats why i breed ten , some years i kill all ten some years five somes years maybe eight or nine live, the choice of bee i breed with are english blacks from several sources, every year i import three or four bees from them from darkest kidderminster and furvest bilth wells over the seas and far away in wales past the mountains or licky hills any way, thats it very simple no worrying about other drones and left handed webbed footed bee keepers called bob , i breed ten if they are good enough to work with they get a chance the others dont, this is why i want to run 15 to 20 hives so i can flood the area with drones when i want too, and to be brutaly honest i belive that breeding queens is 80% hard work and 20 % guess work, unless of course you have a AI unit going where any thing is posible, i dont worry about what the purest call breed selection , ie pure race carni or english bees mine are dark and differant to all other super bees by being a lot more laid back at times when newer breeds are hard at work mine are still in bed
 

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I can't see 1 huge colony collecting more honey than 2 colonies at half that size.
I see every year how bigger hives are 3-4 times better foragers than small ones. But of course the big one needs more work than small ones. The most miserable work is extraction and from small hives you need not extract much honey. Selling honey is anither thing. Yoi need not sell so much honey.

Small hives are lazy man's job, or ladies'.

But actually good yields depends on good pastures, not on bees.

You must note too that if you have 2 box hives or 6 box hives, you should put only in one site 30% big hives compared that of small hives.

50 years ago its was said here that put only 10 hives in one site. Now they say same even if hives are 3 fold bigger. 50 years ago it was said that put 4 hives per rape hectare. With modern hive numbers it is 12! 10 hectares 120 small hives! WOW.... I put 2-4 hives per 10 hectare.

If pastures are poor, it is same what you put there. Your works year around will be wasted.

When you calculate work with bees, dont stir the lifting of brood frames or queen searching.

Look the whole year and look what you get as honey. But no one have become rich with honest work. Forget it! It is trading which makes rich. Bye others' honey, multiply the price with two, and sell!
 
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Crg 

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Why do people import or try to breed a bee that will reproduce to such an extent that the standard brood box is not big enough? I can't think that having 22 frames of brood frames is easier than working through 2 hives having 11 frames each. Yes there is the cost but I can't see 1 huge colony collecting more honey than 2 colonies at half that size.
Quick question, what produces more surplus honey, a hive with 11 frames - or four observation hives with 3 frames each?

More bees tend to be more efficient, a higher percentage of them can be foragers.

In regards to the 22 frames of brood - I have a prolific bee and only single brood box with 12 frames per hive.
 

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For hedgerow pete

Your comment intrigues me;
but more and more breeders are going blindly down this route so i still have my amm strain,
Your Amm strain have a cubital Index of what? and what class would you place them in?
What colour are the Hairs on the Tomenta?
And finally what is the measurement of the Discoidal shift?

I would be very interested in anyone would could supply with a data of there own bees.

Regards;
 

JCBrum 

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I would supply that data if I knew how to do it. I've got some dark bees.

Do you have any recommendations on software Bcrazy ?
 

Bcrazy 

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Hi members if your serious about finding if your stocks of Amm and how they fare within the natural confines of the strain Amm then go to

http://www.bibba.com/downloads.php

BIBBA site for Bee Beeding

Regards;
 

JCBrum 

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Thanks, I'll have to a bit of study to get up to speed on this. JC.
 

hedgerow pete 

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great tip for advice but i do have several worries about the bibba, but that is just me, and not for everyone else to worry about, is it?

as for my bees i was planning to buy one of those electric micro scopes from maplins so i can get the close up work photos so i can take pictures of it, i might even strap a ccd camera to the lens of a normal scope to see if that works, but at the moment i am not working more than i am working so £60 for another bee toy is unavalible for the moment rent has to come first, but you are right in what you say
i have a type of bee that i breed and its time to start to get technical with there classification rather than what i describe now . thats why i only call the them dark european bees, i have no rights to call them english blacks, thats why i dont!
 

Crg 

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Your Amm strain have a cubital Index of what? and what class would you place them in?
What colour are the Hairs on the Tomenta?
And finally what is the measurement of the Discoidal shift?
One could breed AMM that was cordovan in colour easily and within a few generations. Measuring or looking at what colour it is, isn't exactly an accurate of knowing whether a bee is AMM or not ;)
 

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Hi Crg

Couldn't agree more with your comment.

There are a number of factors that processed together will give a good indication of the bees generic makeup. No one individual aspect will can ever be considered conclusive of breed.

Another point to consider is the length of the proboscis. Just my thoughts.

Regards;
 

Crg 

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There are a number of factors that processed together will give a good indication of the bees generic makeup. No one individual aspect will can ever be considered conclusive of breed.

Another point to consider is the length of the proboscis. Just my thoughts.
Unfortunately only genetic analysis will give an accurate picture of the genetic makeup of the bees.

Look at this study for example Racial mixture of Apis mellifera... page 5, figure c) morphology, and a) mitochondria. Page 7 sums it up as "there was no significant association between bees classified as being more mellifera or ligustica-like on the basis of morphology and their mitochondrial haplotype.
 

hedgerow pete 

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thanks for that great link crg, that was brilliant, if you know of any more i would love to see them, as i said iam trying this year or next to realy try and nail down what sort of bees i have and maybe there breed classification, i would also love to know of any one that can also throw meathods and light onto the subject . minius the dna testing route or ant thing that will cost money at the moment
 

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