Prime and cast swarms

[kazmcc]

Can someone explain to me (again) what the difference is in a prime and cast swarm? I have used the search utility to try and find the answer, but I hit threads on swarms that didn't explain the difference. I seem to have forgotten everything you all taught me! Although some of it is coming back to me - slowly

 

[jimmybee]

Prime : first swarm that leaves with the mated queen casts are normally unmated and smaller

 

[kazmcc]

Thank you

 

[Erichalfbee]

The colony makes preparations to swarm. Swarm Queen cells are started and the bees reduce their Queen's feeding so that she slims down to be able to fly.
On the day the first swarm cell is capped (usually, but will be weather dependant) approximately half the bees fill up with honey, usher their Queen out and swarm. Eight days later a virgin Queen will emerge from the first swarm cell capped. She may destroy all the other nascent Queens and head the new colony or she may leave the hive with half of the remaining bees. If she leaves she becomes part of a cast or after swarm. Strong colonies may have several after swarms sometimes depleting the original one to such an extent that it doesn't survive.
So a prime has the colony's original mated Queen and cast swarms have an unmated virgin Queen. Depending on the size of the original colony a cast can be a considerable size or just a cupful of bees

 

[kazmcc]

Thank you! That explains things perfectly. I love finding out what goes on in the hive prior to things happening. I am still in awe.

 

[Ben90]

Prime : first swarm that leaves with the mated queen casts are normally unmated and smaller

A cast can also be the first swarm to leave the hive after the queen has been taken away in an unsuccessful A/S.

 

[kazmcc]

Got it. I'm glad you told me that as I would have had to ask about that at some point lol

 

[majika]

Has anyone experienced a cast out of a large swarm. I collected a swarm the other day and housed it. A small cast then left this hive at a new location and i boxed it in a apidea as i thought it was just bees that had just got lost and clumped together. Apidea in my kitchen last night with a new queen chirping away. Maybe bad weather caused both old queen and new to leave in swarm together.

 

[Finman]

.
Basics of beekeeping:

First swarm goes about when first queen cells are capped. Swarm goes with old queen.

When first queen cell emerges, queens inside the cells start to peep to each other. They do not come out from cells, but when the second swarm leaves, virgins come out and start to kill each others.

Second swarm leaves after a week when first swarm leaved the hive. So the colony had time to getnew bees about one week.

Peeping swarm virgins are about 2 days old. Their body is hardened and they can fly when they come out from cells. Of course there are soft virgins too in cells and they are carried out from hive.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Prime : first swarm that leaves with the mated queen casts are normally unmated and smaller

Sort of - prime swarm is headed by mated queen and casts always by unmated and they may be smaller.
If it has a mated queen, whether it's small or large it's not a cast.

 

[For want of a better word]

I clip and mark my queens and keep good records.
Can someone explain.........
Sunday PM
I saw mass of bees on outside of hive... ( double brood and supered) since it was one of the colonies from a swarm collected last season that I maintain to provide young bees for apidea, I allowed it to progress.
I observed the bees readying to swarm, excitedly flying in front of and around the hive... and then as one, fly off to a gatepost, from where I gathered up the bees into a nuc, found and caged a virgin queen ( must go and let her out if they have not eaten the candy already and released her).
The main hive colony seemed to have calmed down.
On inspection I found the original ( green marked and cliped) queen... a number of swarm cells sealed with one tuliped... and new eggs and brood of all stages.
I split the colony into 3, 6 framed nuc boxes, keeping back 4 fully drawn but empty frames ( gold dust!)

Have these bees not read the books?
By definition I caught a cast.... but this leaves ONLY after the prime swarm has left.

Weather is VERY changeable here.... perhaps that is the problem???


Yeghes da

 

[Firefly]

found and caged a virgin queen

Just for my education: is that simply to prevent them absconding?

 

[Erichalfbee]

.
Basics of beekeeping:

'Tis true....usually.
Three weeks ago I found emerging virgins....quite a few.... and the old queen present in the same hive.

 

[Finman]

'Tis true....usually.
Three weeks ago I found emerging virgins....quite a few.... and the old queen present in the same hive.

I have met too. Old and 3 virgns in same swarm. Weather delays swarming, and unusual things happen.

When queens have selected and breeded by human, that they would not swarm, many kind of anomalies exist in hives. Some are such that they are theoretically impossible.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Has anyone experienced a cast out of a large swarm. I collected a swarm the other day and housed it. A small cast then left this hive at a new location and i boxed it in a apidea as i thought it was just bees that had just got lost and clumped together. Apidea in my kitchen last night with a new queen chirping away. Maybe bad weather caused both old queen and new to leave in swarm together.

Occasionally multiple virgins can fly with a swarm.