Post mortem quiz on a nuc

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Up for discussion - the nuc in question was at an out apiary, had a 2020 queen in, laying nicely but nuced due to swarm preparations in the original hive. The nuc was building up nicely, ended up in a double nuc for winter and was packed with stores.
Fine at Christmas when OA'd and still packed with stores. I don't go there unless I'm called down so they've been ;eft alone apart from a quick check after the storms to make sure they were secure.
Went there yesterday and no sign of bee movement, deadout, but still some stores left in the top and bottom box.
What do we think happened?

 

[Boston Bees]

Well, mouse, unless it's something even larger!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well, mouse, unless it's something even larger!

I'll reveal all later.
What do they say about assumptions?
and sorry, it was a 2019 queen

 

[Boston Bees]

I'll reveal all later.
What do they say about assumptions?
and sorry, it was a 2019 queen

I think you should tell us whether the entrance had been expanded to a larger than normal size by something.

And also whether the hive was still in an upright position when you found it i.e. not on it's side, with boxes separated.

 

[JamezF]

Yes, my first thought would have been a mouse.

James

 

[Curly green finger's]

Mice, I've lost my first colony this winter to mice. A single brood with a home made entrance block which was a bit tall, you live and learn.

 

[user 819]

An intruder of some kind mouse/shrew.
Near a water course ? A vole.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Any Live bees?
Any brood?
Any queen?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Any Live bees?
Any brood?
Any queen?

I did say a deadout, and all is as you see, no brood

Nuc was sat on it's stand, no damage to the entrance or anywhere else.

 

[JamezF]

Aliens then. Definitely aliens.

James

 

[Boston Bees]

Bedding area does look perhaps too large for a mouse.

If it wasn't for the entrance I would say it could be a squirrel or a hedgehog.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bedding area does look perhaps too large for a mouse.

It's a bit deceiving as all that stuff fell down from between the frames (you can see some still stuck to the comb.)

 

[B_north]

and sorry, it was a 2019 queen

Queen failure????? But definitely something came in and chewed up those combs. I had a shrew last season that decimated one of my hives, but they leave body parts not whole bees.

 

[Antipodes]

Up for discussion - the nuc in question was at an out apiary, had a 2020 queen in, laying nicely but nuced due to swarm preparations in the original hive. The nuc was building up nicely, ended up in a double nuc for winter and was packed with stores.
Fine at Christmas when OA'd and still packed with stores. I don't go there unless I'm called down so they've been ;eft alone apart from a quick check after the storms to make sure they were secure.
Went there yesterday and no sign of bee movement, deadout, but still some stores left in the top and bottom box.
What do we think happened?
View attachment 31050View attachment 31051View attachment 31052View attachment 31053View attachment 31054

Can you give us another hint please?
For instance, was it beekeeper error?

Was the entrance completely stuffed solid with debris and leaves from the big wind and rain storms you had?

 

[mbc]

Winci?

 

[rolande]

Can you give us another hint please?
For instance, was it beekeeper error?

Impossible. Surely?

 

[The Poot]

The roof blew off and things outside went inside and destroyed things inside.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ok - this is as much as I can make out, there was an oldish queen in there, they piled in the stores at the end of they year, still plenty of stores at Christmas when I vaped - bees were active.
A few weeks ago I had to pass down that way so I did a quick check, all the hives were active but this one was a bit quiet and a lot lighter so I popped the lid for a quick check - there were bees in the bottom when I looked between the frames, OMF was clean, I suspected they were dwindling but didn't have time to do more, I didn't have a bee suit and it was pretty cold.
So this Thursday, when I got there it was obvious they were dead, sooooo
I think there may have been a late supersedure and the queen wasn't that good. regardless, they were OK ish, since Christmas, the queen died and they dwindled, when I checked earlier this month there may have been the last knockings of the colony in there (I don't think they were robbers as there are still stores remaining) in the last week or two bees were either all dead or so few left not worth a jot.
Then an opportunistic mouse or as MBC said, maybe even a weasel saw a nice cosy location for a spring brooding nest, moved in, chewed away a bit of the wax (which was still on the floor) to make some room. and to be fair, has made more room than I think a mouse would need, then had started to stuff the box full of leaves - the leaves were all intact and just stuffed in, no sign of nest building or any other lining materials.

But yes - when I first opened up my thoughts were 'bleddin mouse has moved in chewed the comb and killed the cluster.' it was only on taking a deep breath and looking at all the facts I began to realise the story was a bit more complex

 

[Curly green finger's]

Ok - this is as much as I can make out, there was an oldish queen in there, they piled in the stores at the end of they year, still plenty of stores at Christmas when I vaped - bees were active.
A few weeks ago I had to pass down that way so I did a quick check, all the hives were active but this one was a bit quiet and a lot lighter so I popped the lid for a quick check - there were bees in the bottom when I looked between the frames, OMF was clean, I suspected they were dwindling but didn't have time to do more, I didn't have a bee suit and it was pretty cold.
So this Thursday, when I got there it was obvious they were dead, sooooo
I think there may have been a late supersedure and the queen wasn't that good. regardless, they were OK ish, since Christmas, the queen died and they dwindled, when I checked earlier this month there may have been the last knockings of the colony in there (I don't think they were robbers as there are still stores remaining) in the last week or two bees were either all dead or so few left not worth a jot.
Then an opportunistic mouse or as MBC said, maybe even a weasel saw a nice cosy location for a spring brooding nest, moved in, chewed away a bit of the wax (which was still on the floor) to make some room. and to be fair, has made more room than I think a mouse would need, then had started to stuff the box full of leaves - the leaves were all intact and just stuffed in, no sign of nest building or any other lining materials.

But yes - when I first opened up my thoughts were 'bleddin mouse has moved in chewed the comb and killed the cluster.' it was only on taking a deep breath and looking at all the facts I began to realise the story was a bit more complex

I know they have small sculls but would a weasel get in a nuc entrance?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've had Stan make me two wooden nuc floors with UFE with this in mind. Not yet in use.
They are solid floors though.
Thoughts on using these with a poly box?