Possible Problem with Apiguard ... please read this

[rosie gardener]

I've posted this on the BBKA forum, thought in only polite to put it here too. It looks like we have a major problem and we'll let you know how Vita Europe respond.

"I cannot think of a way to not sound sensationalist so I'm just going to say it as it appears to us.

This week we have been treating our bees with a bucket of Apiguard we bought last autumn. We have followed the instructions very carefully. So far we know 2 hives, different apiaries, different breeding lines, both good colonies, have both trashed their brood nest, starting underneath the tray of Apiguard.

We went to a third apiary, which we treated midweek, it was too late to look in but from the debris on the varroa floor it looks like at least 2, maybe 3 have done the same thing.

We shall check these tomorrow, and speak to whomever we can at Vita Europe, and let you know what they say. "

 

[Midland Beek]

You bought a bucket.

I know a commercial beek who uses it in bulk quantities and spoons it out onto foil-covered cardboard. Says he has to reduce dosage quantities because of the way it is administered, ie. not in a conventional tray. Found this out after colonies were overdosed despite using correct amount of product.

 

[Marvin]

This is alarming. Please re-post in 24 hours with a more considered assessment of your experience.

 

[rosie gardener]

This is alarming. Please re-post in 24 hours with a more considered assessment of your experience.

Will do, and hopefully once I've spoken to someone at Vita Europe.
We are absolutely devastated.

 

[Silly Bee]

Will do, and hopefully once I've spoken to someone at Vita Europe.
We are absolutely devastated.

I'd be devestated if I don't overwinter, Losing them before Winter is unthinkable.

 

[bobandbec]

I think it is important to consider this in relation to the number of beeks who "successfully" use AG and maybe to know in more detail the circumstances surrounding the usage that resulted in the difficulties.

 

[madasafish]

Our apiary has been using bucket Apiguard like the OP for a month with none of the issues described.

 

[Chris B]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by trashing the broodnest i.e. symptoms and how many frames.

 

[Stiffy]

So far we know 2 hives, different apiaries, different breeding lines, both good colonies, have both trashed their brood nest, starting underneath the tray of Apiguard

Would be interested in seeing a little more detail such as how large were the colonies, how much of brood nest destroyed , levels of infestation etc.

Most of mine are on their third week of apiguard and apart from the usual 'hanging' around outside have had no problems.

Maybe a 'duff' batch ?

I was surprised at the level of mite drop 20-30 per day from one hive though and glad that I have treated.

Cheers
S

 

[mbc]

Any thymol treatment is 'cruel to be kind' .
Discarding pupae from the brood nest is quite a mild reaction compared to all the adult bees and queen absconding which is what can happen in a severe case of thymol poisoning

 

[rosie gardener]

This is alarming. Please re-post in 24 hours with a more considered assessment of your experience.

Blimey I thought it was a 'considered assessment' in view of the devastation wreaked. We still await a promised phone call from Vita Europe, after which we shall update you with their view. In the meantime we have also taken bee matters into our own hands, which we shall also advise.

 

[drstitson]

is the stuff seeping down onto the underlying brood? what did you put the stuff on?

 

[Mike a]

rosie gardener

When you get a chance to visit them again could you take a picture of the combs that have been trashed and post it please.

 

[rosie gardener]

Thank you for your interest, please check on the BBKA Forum for progress, and there is some.
Cheers
rosie

 

[Brosville]

howsabout repeating it here for those of us who choose not to/are unable to use the BBKA forum?

 

[kazmcc]

Can't find anything about it on BBKA forum. Even searched for Rosies posts, but she's only made two it says

 

[broandy]

From the dark side

Ruthie - and bees at bobs - you both have my sympathy, its really distressing when you're trying to do the best for the bees and the treatment itself seems to be making things worse.

I have a few things to catch up with on here, firstly thanks to Dr Max Watkins of Vita Europe for getting in contact. Unfortunately we still don't know the cause but will see how much help our observations now will be.

The apiguard batch no is 07F1230, but there appears to be nothing anomalous about this batch. We have been asked to send it back for assessment anyway.

Some of your questions about dosage and application are annoying, but I will confirm that the instructions were followed to to letter. All apiaries have excellent supplies of food.

Now, to particulars. 3 of the 15 colonies treated (1 in each apiary, and all different original strains of Queen) reacted badly. Many more showed signs of brood body parts on the varroa inspection trays, in lines under where the apiguard treatment had been placed.

All 3 affected colonies still have the queen present, and now (over a week later) have 5-6 brood frames of eggs and young larvae. With a following wind and good weather (and of course continued good forage) we hope to see them through the winter.

We shall keep you (and Vita Europe) informed as to how they go on.

In the meantime, to those of you who say 'pupae rejection' is acceptable, I utterly disagree. And to anyone else who experiences this problem please keep posting, and/or contact Vita Europe to alert them to any apparent over-reaction to the product.

cheers
rosie

 

[Queens59]

It mainly says that a DR. something phoned, even though he was on holiday and they have asked for the batch back, and that investigations are ongoing

 

[BKF Admin]

Thank you for your interest, please check on the BBKA Forum for progress, and there is some.
Cheers
rosie

Is that a joke !!

You are off my Christmas card list for giving out that advice..

 

[kazmcc]

Is that a joke !!

You are off my Christmas card list for giving out that advice..

Lol, I've never been on that forum before, but went on tonight to find out what happened. I can safely say this forum is much nicer to use.

Do I get a christmas card for that