Polyhives and styrene leaching?

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PBee

PBee

Drone Bee
Joined
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Location
On Soffa
Hive Type
Dadant
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Hello All, Anyone have any information on the safety of polystyrene as a hive material? I know they are very widely used now but styrene is a suspected carcinogen -American Cancer Society - and whilst it seems heat may be required for leaching such as in coffee cups etc. my concern would be that in a hive situation eroded polystyrene or brace comb attachment may bring polystyrene in contact with honey. My current hives are HDPE (Nicot) which is stable but the thermal qualities are not as good as Polystyrene.
 
I'd be more worried about how you sterilise the hives. You can put a blow-torch on wood...

Savoyard
 
.
If so, we should be worried about other things. Polystyre has been used as insulator in human houses, cars, freezers. It is used as hard plastic too in many things.

We have supermarkets and stores which are full of all kinds of polystyrene packages. Workers are there all the time. .....let's see what happens....

If you accustome to the smoker's smoke? It is is full of cancer stuff. However you blow in purpose onto combs it and it moves to the honey.

I have had polyhives 25 years. I have not seen that it erodes on inside surfaces. It does not release either plastic odor like many stuff does.
 
There is an official advisory leaflet for the sterilizing of poly hives. Has been now for almost two years, never say the GOV keeps up as they have been in use for over 25 years now.

So can we lay this chestnut to rest.

Oh and by the way if you trust your flame gun to steralise your timber you are sadly mistaken.

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/index.cfm?pageid=167 Plastic Hives PDF Updated Feb 2011

PH
 
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"my concern would be that in a hive situation eroded polystyrene or brace comb attachment may bring polystyrene in contact with honey"

luckily we have a nice clear beespace all around the bits we actually harvest from ie the frames. any brace comb is removed before extraction.
 
Missed that bit.

Eroded poly... we are not using packaging quality poly but injection moulded. me thinks the OP has yet to meet a proper poly hive.

PH
 
Of the three hive materials I have used polystyrene is my preferred choice for the obvious benefits of lightness, insulation and cost - I have some original Swi-bo nationals, Nordpor Dadant Blatt and recently Honey Paw Langstroth . The (recent) issue for me is not sterilisation but the fact that bee space or not there is the probability that honey will at times come in contact with polystyrene and my question would be, in this case, is there any risk of leaching of styrene (vinyl benzene) into honey. Erosion will occur I would expect from general wear and tear and pest damage. Any pointers to-wards scientific study, if it exists, or honey test results would be appreciated.
 
I do not know of such a test but that of course does not mean there is not one.

For the sake of assumption here. If there is any giving of of fumes from newly made poly (and I am not aware of any myself) then in the general course of hive activity any such fumes would be vented out the hive in the course of nectar drying I would have thought. Obviously your honey is going to be contained in wax surrounded by wood unless you are using plastic frames.

I would like to ask what started this hare running? Something that was said by someone or just general pondering?

PH
 
sure you can't use poly hives to produce organic honey but then again there's nowhere in the UK you can do that anyway!
 
drstitson said:
sure you can't use poly hives to produce organic honey but then again there's nowhere in the UK you can do that anyway!
Click to expand...

The actual rule, and I discussed this at length with the Soil Association, is that the hive must be composed *mainly* of natural materials. The hive can be deemed to include the combs and frams, albeit without any honey.

When pressing the point I asked how this was assessed, how it was measured. There was no strict definition. I asked if by weight would do, and the answer was a fairly certain 'yes'.

You WOULD need to line the box with something like heavy paper or wood veneer so the poly did not have contact with the interior of the hive. They were unaware of the propolis varnishing so this was to be reviewed as a possible natural sealant.

In addition, there ARE some places in the UK where organic could be done, some of the very large heather estates are actually organic and it is possible to get sites far enough away from any forbidden features to do it. Whether it is viable is another matter, as wintering bees in such areas and trying to build them again for the next season is problematic. I understand that now it is only necesary to have the bees on that land in the producing period, and that where they are for the rest of the year, subject to not doing anything really contrary to organic principals, is of little consequence.

However, for inputs you can get organic boxes, organic frames, organic beeswax, organic syrup, and organic queens.
 
Bees are good at collecting dusts... that includes heavy metals such as cadmium, lead, zinc, copper. Quite a few of these you can find in remote areas that have old mines as well as industrial areas.

Try honey from the beautiful rural areas of Tyndrum, Amlwch, Wanlockhead, Keswick ....
 
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Into the lions den said:
However, for inputs you can get organic boxes, organic frames, organic beeswax, organic syrup, and organic queens.
Click to expand...

jees but. Why organic honey is in plastic jar or bottle?

I have allways said, if you are keen in organic, look at your wife's chemical store in bathroom.

And the main thing is: almost all food stuffs are packed into plastic.

If you have some opinion, it is not common fact or true or line.
 
OK, a bit of basic chemistry, or a look at it from a chemical viewpoint.

Your styrene, and it will be poly by the time it has been produced and processed (possibly) several times, is an aromatic compound (benzene ring is a bit of a give-away, here) and, as such, will have similar characteristics to most other aromatics (those of complete covalent nature in particular). One of those characteristics is solubilty or miscibility with water. It/they isn't/aren't.

Now let's look at honey - a rather different item but primarily a carbohydrate solution in water.

Therefore the likelihood of simple dissolution of styrene in water is not such a very likely option without intimate contact. There is none. The styrene would preferentially be absorbed in miniscule amounts by wax, perhaps.

Further the simple fact that we can smell styrene (at higher concentrations) tells us something else. It is volatile - not so very, but nevertheless, it evaporates. Any unlikely styrene molecules, that may escape the product over it's lifespan, will almost certainly become entrained in wax (not so very likely) or evaporate. The air in a hive will be changed on a regular basis and this really miniscule amount of material is almost certain to find it's way out of the hive.

Oh dear, watch out candle makers, there may be styrene about! Not really an issue in any way, shape or form. Far more things to worry about than just a very remote possibility of styrene in candles

I would suggest that the OP refrains from foodstuffs such as coffee, strawberries and cinnamon for instance. Likely as not he knows nothing of chemicals and has just latched on to reports for the likes of plastics' workers, oil workers or heated foodstuffs in polystyrene containers. The use of the word 'suspected' and 'seems' does not really instill confidence in reports from possibly scare-mongering organisations.

Fire resistance is a very much more a safety issue for a polystyrene hive, so I would advise the OP to avoid anything that can easily burn. That may include timber, especially cedar what with it containing all sorts of oils within the wood!
 
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That might be mine.... lol

Literally though, I do have a slide of it.

PH
 
:rolleyes:
Finman said:
A queen eates every day many times of its weight. Why the queens are still alive in hives?
Click to expand...


try
Spatial and temporal variation of metal concentrations
in adult honeybees (Apis mellifera L.)
Jozef J. M. van der Steen & Joop de Kraker &
Tim Grotenhuis
July 2011

and
MacKenzie, A.B., and Pulford, I.D. (2002) Investigation of contaminant metal dispersal from a disused mine site at Tyndrum, Scotland, using concentration gradients and stable Pb isotope ratios. Applied Geochemistry, 17 (8). pp. 1093-1103. ISSN 0883-2927
 
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