Poly vs wood?

[Hivemaker.]

- if the weather ever changes for the better.

Of course it will,have a little faith, the weather in late July and August will be wonderful for the heather.

 

[REDWOOD]

did anyone have a good crop of heather last year, mine was terrible it rained every day the heather was in flower

 

[Hivemaker.]

did anyone have a good crop of heather last year,

Yes.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not a lot of heather around my neck of the woods, unfortunately!

Yes the weather will 'even out', but probaly around the June gap - whenever that might happen this year!. I just take the weather as it comes and act accordingly; certainly can't change it! Beeks can, however, change from the historical stuck in the mud 'do this at this particular time' syndrome and think ahead for themselves. Some do, a lot don't.

 

[johnandyrob]

Of course it will,have a little faith, the weather in late July and August will be wonderful for the heather.

Good plenty of it near me.

 

[Goodwood]

New to this game last year.
Took my colony through the winter in its old wooden hive clad with an overcoat of 50mm Recticel wall insulation starpped to the outside.
Trouble is, its doing so well with 2 1/2 brood box (a mistake that will eventually revert to double brood) and one super, i am reluctant to remove it.
Maybe when the weather improves....

 

[Swarm]

Not been able to get my bees up into a poly BB yet with the dreary start. However due to a roof problem, I fitted a poly super on the cedar BB in order to get the old roof off and replace with poly.

What a difference that made!! They seem very happy with it so I can't wait to get them into all poly.

 

[Walrus]

I have cedar hives and poly nucs. I think poly makes sense for overwintering nucs but personally I love cedar hives as they are nice and solid. My poly nucs definitely need a brick on top or the roof blows away.

Both seem to provide bees with a nice home.

 

[youngyoungs]

I have poly hives, and both poly and wooden nucs.

Reasons ?

Cost, compatibility of wood and poly, weight, thermal insulation properties for over wintering. Nucs I can knock up (badly) myself if I need them in a hurry.

Concerns- aesthetics, longevity and durability, ease of sterilisation for the poly ones.

Lots of pros and cons, but in the end the choice is very beekeeper dependent.

Whatever you choose will be right in some peoples eyes and wrong in others!

 

[clv101]

Just to add to the info supplied by Bob. I'm a micro palaeontologist by profession. In essence, that means I look at a lot of silt, sand and mud. I can tell you that what I see down a microscope in present day sands and silts should scare everyone. Plastics do break down to a point. However, they are present, and remain so, at the microscopic level. Lets be clear, this stuff does get into the marine food chain. When you see how many poly boxes get dumped from both the agriculture and fisheries industry its appalling. As for the OP, I agree with the thermal versus food consumption argument, and use a combination of both mediums for winter. But I'm not sure about going over completely to poly.

rockdoc makes a good point - plastics are a major environmental pollutant which are currently receiving disproportional attention in my opinion. I certainly try and reduce my use of plastics where practical and bee hives is one area where there are perfectly good natural alternatives.

If poly hives do offer thermodynamic advantages isn't the solution to investigate insulation options for cedar hives? There are lots of natural insulation products available now - originating in the green building industry. What are the options for insulated crownboards or external cladding? For the winter, I guess a couple of frames can be removed and internal insulation can be used?

 

[Teemore]

clv 101 - There is an article by Ian Craig entitled "My Beekeeping Year" on one of the Scottish beekeeping pages. He manages his hives in a similar manner to that which you suggest i.e. by using (if I remember correctly) insulated dummy boards in place of the outer frames of his hives. The issue of top insulation is a favourite and regular discussion point on the forum and quite a few 'debates' can be found amongst old threads. It is common practice to use roofing insulation in the hive roofs.

 

[Poly Hive]

Location plays a large part in hive choice too.

I note Devon and Bristol on this thread, a very soft climate compared to here in the East Mids or Aberdeenshire where I began using poly many years ago now. I think 1991.

I just found that the bees do better in poly. I still have two timber broods but they are for summer usage only.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

My poly nucs definitely need a brick on top or the roof blows away

All my polynucs have provision for a simple strap, so no bricks used on any of mine to keep the roof on! They might be strapped to the stand to avoid the whole caboodle blowing away, but I would site them in a more sheltered spot or supply some shelter, Only ones with a crownboard or a plastic sheet are normally at risk, the rest being firmly held on with propolis soon after any inspection anyway! My location is perhaps not quite as windy as some parts of the country, so readers should not be taking that comment as typical for all installations.

isn't the solution to investigate insulation options for cedar hives?

Certainly an alternative, but not necessarily the solution. I wonder what this insulation might be - not derived from oil - nor a plastic - by any chance?

The polyhive in it's present form has few ecological disadvantages - as long as it is disposed of appropriately at the end of it's thirty or more years expected longevity. I am now confident that the density and use of these boxes is so different to packaging and insulation plastics that the argument need not arise. Recycling is the key.

Fifty years, or more, worth of light-degraded plastics littered in the environment will be noticeable under a microscope. That in itself may, or may not, be a bad thing. Most materials can eventually get to be incuded in the sands and silts unless they are consumed or dissolved? Certainly a waste of resources!

He manages his hives in a similar manner to that which you suggest i.e. by using (if I remember correctly) insulated dummy boards in place of the outer frames of his hives.

I did that last year for some of my timber hives. Not the best year to try it, unfortunately, as the autumn was, shall we say, atypical.

I run 14 x 12s and had found, over several seasons, that a full box of stores was not all needed for a typical winter, so I was removing frames of stores in the spring to allow for colony expansion. Easier to store those frames of stores and replace when needed? Jury is still out - I shall try again this coming winter - as there are several issues.

Amount of sugar fed is one (I haven't autumn fed for years); rearranging frames in spring is a marginal issue, but storing honey off the hives needs consideration from a disease point of view, especially fo some.

Extraction of the honey may be another issue to consider - and feed sugar in the spring if needed (again I have fed absolutely zilch, this spring and 'summer' so far).

My MB poly hive affords plenty of insulation and has fewer frames anyway, so they are currently the obvious way to go for me. Much lighter as well!

 

[Poly Hive]

I have a brick on every hive and always have had, timber units as well.

Why?

They give at a glance info.

On end standing up... alert something was wrong last inspection.

In line with front and back all is well.

Across from side to side, dead and needing sorting out.

Then it can get as complex as you like. I sprayed some bricks so...

X colour was grafts.

Y colour was cells being nurtured.

Z colour was caged cells.

Using a brick is another tool, not a liability.

PH

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Poly vs wood?

I'd back the stick against a parrot any time.


Dusty

 

[miniegg]

I've had Cedar and I now have a poly hive.

Why? In all honesty, cost. my first two were stolen and I can't afford cedar any more.

I've bought one that's INTERNALLY compatible with national hive parts, which makes it a little bit bigger externally (not so you'd really notice but bigger all the same). I can still use frames I've had previously.

The thicker walls mean that if it was the same size EXTERNALLY, it would need dedicated internal bits and pieces.

Also, in researching this, I realise that Cedar is most extensively used in the UK but controversial elsewhere as it's seen as less sustainable (interesting contrast to some earlier posts). Cedar is often associated with less sustainable logging practices so if you do get poly hives, don't feel bad that you have to take it to the council dump to recycle it eventually (no hardship really) and do be aware of deforestation.

The differences may be down to the fact that my cedar bees were pretty angry little ladies and my new ones are as placid as lambs. It's odd though as I just don't hear a buzz through the polystyrene like I used to through the cedar. It's very well insulated. It also happily avoided a week of hammering

 

[miniegg]

Oh, and it's not noticeably lighter, once it's full of bees!

 

[oliver90owner]

Oh, and it's not noticeably lighter, once it's full of bees!

If you were referring to my post, yes it is. Fewer frames, for a start. The dummy insulation frames I made up for the timber boxes were not exacly light either.

Certainly feels easier to move, to me. Perhaps I need to physically compare the two.

 

[Finman]

.
To insulate wooden box......

If you have douple wall and 10 mm air gap, it gives a good inslation compared to solid wood and ply
Construction is heavy and expencive.

 

[scuttlefish]

I have a brick on every hive and always have had, timber units as well.

Why?

They give at a glance info. ...

...Using a brick is another tool, not a liability.

PH

Now there's a handy idea!