Poly Hives - State of play

[sussexbaker]

Hiya

I've been reading through the various threads about poly hives, and aside from obviously causing great passion amongst people I also get the impression that it's a rather moveable feast. My understanding is that depending on the supplier you're going to get variations in internal/external size, and from that a knock on to compatibility with other manufacturers gear. It also sounds like some supplier's kit is designed to be incompatible, and finally that the actual kit is going through changes as well. As a beginner about to buy a poly hive I wondered if someone had compiled a list of suppliers and their compatability anywhere? If not would anyone fancy using this thread to do so?

Thanks in advance

 

[mbc]

C Wynne Jones/swienty poly nationals = compatible with standard national equipment
any other poly national = idiosyncratic traps

You're welcome

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes....MB have that lip!!!
AND they don't do a 14 x 12 despite many promises.

 

[Sean.]

Paynes will work with other national kit, the roofs for wooden kit won't fit on the poly kit. So use a woden super on the top of the stack - simples!

 

[BeeJayBee]

As a beginner about to buy a poly hive I wondered if someone had compiled a list of suppliers and their compatability ...

Which type of hive are you planning to buy - Langstroth or National?

 

[Swarm]

C Wynne Jones/swienty poly nationals = compatible with standard national equipment
any other poly national = idiosyncratic traps

You're welcome

Not quite.
Swienty nats have rails supplied now for BBS, however the bee space recess on the bottom edge of the box is missing, box sits directly on the frame lugs below. I don't see that working so I guess it's TBS with these. Same external size as wood so other parts will fit.

Paynes and BHS nats are same internal size as wood and both can be used with wooden kit, no problem.

 

[sussexbaker]

Which type of hive are you planning to buy - Langstroth or National?

I'm not 100% at the moment. I guess it's weighing up the advantage that National's have in being able to borrow bits of kits etc against the far larger history of Langstroth in Poly development

 

[mbc]

Not quite.
Swienty nats have rails supplied now for BBS, however the bee space recess on the bottom edge of the box is missing, box sits directly on the frame lugs below. I don't see that working so I guess it's TBS with these. Same external size as wood so other parts will fit.
I dont see the need to obsess about the profile of the bottom of the box, I guess most users of the swienty national use multiple brood boxes without an isuue.
Paynes and BHS nats are same internal size as wood and both can be used with wooden kit, no problem.

Roofs wont fit and the staggered external size is, at best, an ugly looking compromise with issues regarding edges, ledges and rain.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm not 100% at the moment. I guess it's weighing up the advantage that National's have in being able to borrow bits of kits etc against the far larger history of Langstroth in Poly development

If I had my time again I would go poly Lang and run all the same size boxes.
When husband and I get too old to work our bit of land I shall sell up and do just that when we move.

 

[itma]

C Wynne Jones/swienty poly nationals = compatible with standard national equipment
any other poly national = idiosyncratic traps

You're welcome

Again not quite.
The CWJ polys, because they are standard outside, are smaller inside - expect to use 10 brood frames rather than 11.


The BHS and Paynes offerings work fine with wooden kit.
The only limitation is that you can't fit a standard wooden roof on a poly box -- but you really shouldn't want to. A bin bag plus a slab of Celotex with a couple of bricks on top would probably do a better temporary job than a wooden roof.

Paynes roof was a weak point.
The new (current since last autumn?) version is much better - thicker, more wrapover and no longer a daftly tight fit. Much much better!

There are only three remaining idiosyncrasies with Paynes hives
- the floppy cover sheet. Get a nice framed, no-hole, polycarbonate crownboard/"quilt".
- you can only put a brood box (not a poly shallow) directly onto the floor (if you want to do that, you need to get your saw out and make some simple 'modifications'!)
- moulding process indents on the top surface of the boxes. Be prepared to use some polyfilla material for a better finish (not necessary, but IMHO worthwhile).

But they are good value compared to other hives, and the bees are very happy in them.
Excellent low-cost ready-made starting point. (Don't bother with their feeder though.)

 

[Swarm]

Roofs wont fit and the staggered external size is, at best, an ugly looking compromise with issues regarding edges, ledges and rain.

No problems at all with rain.
There's no idiosyncratic traps just a wooden roof won't fit paynes or BHS.

When you buy a swienty to use with BBS kit, then you have a problem, or at least AFAICS.

I like them though and I'll just use them TBS and probably convert stuff. Less bulky and with a much better hand hold.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I'm not 100% at the moment. I guess it's weighing up the advantage that National's have in being able to borrow bits of kits etc against the far larger history of Langstroth in Poly development

Once you've got a couple of hives up and running you should be self-sufficient with kit. Borrowing stuff from other beekeepers is a bit frowned upon these days because of the risk of disease transfer. You can easily clean an empty box, but you can't exactly scorch or bleach frames full of brood!

Other people have talked about Nationals - I've got langstroths.

Paynes sell Swienty Langstroths. They're good sturdy boxes, moulded as one piece so they don't need to be put together. I've got Jumbos with metal roofs, bought via a bee farmer. I like them, wouldn't swap them.

Modern Beekeeping offers two depths of Langstroth brood box. I use their Jumbo nucs, they're fine and bees overwinter well in them. I know people who use Modern Beekeeping (Paradise) hives without any problems.

Abelo does poly Langstroths. I've never used them, never even seen one, but I've read good reports.

I use wooden frames, but I know beekeepers who use plastic frames and like them.

In general you'll pay less for a poly hive than a cedar one, which might be useful when you're starting out.

 

[Itchy]

I won't be buying any more polys....will be insulating cedars properly instead.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Roofs wont fit and the staggered external size is, at best, an ugly looking compromise with issues regarding edges, ledges and rain.

also found that wooden Queen Exluders get twisted out of line putting on the poly supers in the normal angled way, so queens can get past the QE when yu try straightening the super,

so yuo then try to put it on square and cannot see if you are squashing bees as it is an inch inside the outer rim of the super and brood

 

[itma]

…
My understanding is that depending on the supplier you're going to get variations in internal/external size, and from that a knock on to compatibility with other manufacturers gear. It also sounds like some supplier's kit is designed to be incompatible, and finally that the actual kit is going through changes as well. As a beginner about to buy a poly hive I wondered if someone had compiled a list of suppliers and their compatability anywhere? If not would anyone fancy using this thread to do so?

Thanks in advance

I'm not 100% at the moment. I guess it's weighing up the advantage that National's have in being able to borrow bits of kits etc against the far larger history of Langstroth in Poly development

I wonder if you might be under the mistaken impression that "Langstroth" hives are in some way standardised?
Try reading through the whole of this thread http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27807
and there are plenty other similar ones on here.

"Nationals" are based on an admittedly now defunct, but official, British Standard. The British poly manufacturers have tried to work with the standard, retaining compatibility.
"Langstroths" don't have the basis of any official standardisation and every manufacturer has been free to "improve" things as they thought fit.
The Dave Cushman site lists some of the variations encountered.
And that was before there were many polys …

 

[Walrus]

I tried Modern Beekeeping Langs and Swienty Langs. I much prefer Swienty. They are lovely. Compatable with wood if required, top bee space, I don't use QX.

The MB hive is odd and I could not get on with it - mainly the lip and the odd bee space. Still have them as back ups/ nucs.

The MB nucs are excellent though.

 

[Swarm]

Incidentally for those who thought paynes were a bit on the thin side, swienty nats are thinner.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I wonder if you might be under the mistaken impression that "Langstroth" hives are in some way standardised?

They may not be standardised internationally, but there are only a few UK suppliers so people tend to stick to the one type which means there's no problem. If you buy a Swienty polys then all the boxes will fit together; ditto Modern Beekeeping etc.

All the UK-made timber langs are cross-compatible (Thornes, Maisemore etc.) and can be used alongside the poly ones, although the outer footprint of the wooden boxes is smaller the inside is the same size.

It might be wise to check the sizes of the Mann Lake ones before buying.

 

[tidymeup]

I have 20 modern beekeeping langstroth hives and 12 of their nucs. Love these hives compared to the others. I also have around 20 wooden langstroth hives and 30 odd wooden supers which I use with the poly with no problem.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Can only speak about the Pa*nes, but I'm very happy with my 14x12. The new feeder is a huge improvement too and worked well for me last year.

That said, I'm not evangelical about poly for polys sake - two of my three are cedar and I've no huge desire to change them.