Poll: Should it be legal to use the word "Raw" on labels to describe unheated, non-pressure filtered honey

[pargyle]

There are two distinct markets of which you all speak 1) mass produced blended honey from many sources and 2) local honey from small producers. I educate my customers to the benefits of my local honey and it sells itself. You don't need another meaningless adjective to sell a quality product.

Nobody is disputing that, face to face, with your customers that you can educate them to the benefits of the product you produce ... Are you then, by this conversation with your customers, denigrating other products sold by supermarkets which, as ITLD suggests, adding Raw to the label will do ?

If this is the case then are you saying that it's OK to verbally express this but it's not permissible to add raw to a label ? Bit of a moral dilemma there or at least there is a bit of a dichotomy ....

 

[user 20297]

Nobody is disputing that, face to face, with your customers that you can educate them to the benefits of the product you produce ... Are you then, by this conversation with your customers, denigrating other products sold by supermarkets which, as ITLD suggests, adding Raw to the label will do ?

If this is the case then are you saying that it's OK to verbally express this but it's not permissible to add raw to a label ? Bit of a moral dilemma there or at least there is a bit of a dichotomy ....

Spot-on analysis there. Beekeepers aren't generally known for being snowflakes (speaking as a frozen fractal myself). So it is strange that the implication is that those people who can rightly claim that their honey achieves a specific standard should refrain from demanding the right to say so because it will upset those producers who can't.....

 

[Newbeeneil]

Just a thought, does anyone on this site fail to sell their honey crop without the addition of the word raw? Ever since I started beekeeping I have sold out of every jar before I had the next years harvest in and I would suggest that is the same for most beeks.

 

[pargyle]

Just a thought, does anyone on this site fail to sell their honey crop without the addition of the word raw? Ever since I started beekeeping I have sold out of every jar before I had the next years harvest in and I would suggest that is the same for most beeks.

Whether or not one sells out with or without the word raw on the label is not the nub of the issue - Being restricted from describing your product accurately by the use of the word raw is what this discussion is all about. Laurence has been prevented (or at least discouraged) from doing something which, on the face it it, seems reasonable and the objection appears to be that it denigrates other products that are not the same (being processed by fine filtering and pasteurising) or products which are the same but for which some beekeepers appear reluctant to take the same marketing stance ...

There is little logic in not supporting a campaign to see the word raw, in relation to honey, being given a standard and legitimised .... we have a plethora of other 'honey' terms - some of which could be applied to products being sold by some retailers but are not .,... and the only reason these terms are NOT applied is because some of the terms would suggest that the honey is not as wholesome or complete as some customers would like.

Try these some of these for size: - Filtered honey .. do those packers or producers who fine filter to ensure their honey does not crystallise declare this on the label ... I've never seen it ,,, subterfuge by ommission I would suggest .....

From Honey fraud in the UK Post #48.

Quote
For completeness:
Definition of “honey” and different types of honey
2.—(1) In these Regulations “honey” means the natural sweet substance produced by Apis mellifera bees from the nectar of plants or from secretions of living parts of plants or excretions of plant-sucking insects on the living parts of plants which the bees collect, transform by combining with specific substances of their own, deposit, dehydrate, store and leave in honeycombs to ripen and mature.

(2) In these Regulations—

“baker’s honey” means honey that is suitable for industrial use or as an ingredient in another foodstuff which is then processed;

“blossom honey” and “nectar honey” mean honeys obtained from the nectar of plants;

“chunk honey” and “cut comb in honey” mean honeys which contain one or more pieces of comb honey;

“comb honey” means honey stored by bees in the cells of freshly built broodless combs or thin comb foundation sheets made solely of beeswax and sold in sealed whole combs or sections of such combs;

“drained honey” means honey obtained by draining de-capped broodless combs;

“extracted honey” means honey obtained by centrifuging de-capped broodless combs;

“filtered honey” means honey obtained by removing foreign inorganic or organic matters in such a way as to result in the significant removal of pollen;

“honeydew honey” means honey obtained mainly from excretions of plant sucking insects (Hemiptera) on the living part of plants or secretions of living parts of plants;

“pressed honey” means honey obtained by pressing broodless combs with or without the application of moderate heat not exceeding 45° Celsius.

We could progress the argument further - if it it not a standard term why is Summer honey, Spring honey, Lime Honey, Heather honey etc. Permitted ...indeed what is Local Honey ? Do these terms denigrate the products of people who cannot claim these bragging rights on their label.

We are in pretty dangerous waters here ... if we are seeking to restrict the use of one descriptive that is not authorised where is the legitimacy for all the other descriptive terms that some people apply ?

 

[WoodenBeam]

OMG for something that is sooooo simple it’s amazing this is still be being debated, oh hang on this is a bunch of beekeepers we’re on about
Surely the word ‘Honey’ should suffice? A good quality product that is of acceptable appearance to the market place where sold should do - the need to add further text/clarification I question. Terms such as spring/summer are pretty self explanatory to the main. The term ‘raw’ when applied to a jar is not - just by extracting it this is a form of process is it not? Where there is the need to question it can cause confusion, confusion needs clarification & this typically leads to interpretation which then just descends into a continuous spiral in a downward direction (with red tape with additional costs!)
Why a wonderful product needs to be enhanced? with baloney gives insight into the type of person selling it in my opinion

 

[Patrick1]

Mr Edwards makes some very good points and their should be some standards that define our product clearly for the public. As the term "Raw" seems to have been abused and not favoured by some, maybe a new term eg "Grade 1" honey could be used with a strict definition agreed with the Gov.

And who is going to grade it……………….the same people who screwed the word Raw and move on to another hyperbole !

Incidentally the government has already set out guidelines.

 

[Patrick1]

But ... if it has been denigrated then any other term is going to follow suit - so far better to legislate and legalise a term that the consumer is familiar with than start from scratch with a new term. Raw is only denigrated in the eyes of some beekeepers - not in the perception of the buying public so, if it works, why fix it (or in this case change it).

To suggest that all customers who seek out raw honey are muppets influenced by shenanigans in the USA is naive .... there may be a few who are but the vast majority that I speak to about my honey understand what is done to much of the honey sold in supermarkets and they tell me that they can taste the difference.

And no - you can't use taste the difference ... Sainsbury already have it on their 100% pure - FOREIGN honey ...

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui...ange-blossom-honey--taste-the-difference-340g

I wonder if this has been analysed to see the pollen count is above the required 51% to be allowed to be called orange blossom, these are the sort of suppliers we should be concentrating on

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why a wonderful product needs to be enhanced

Maybe because so much of it is diminished?

 

[WoodenBeam]

Maybe because so much of it is diminished?

But isn’t that why ‘our customers’ keep returning & we have no issues selling our Honey?
You can easily purchase blended honey for a fifth of the price of the typical retail price around here of local honey. People do know & appreciate the difference.
I don’t really care what others are up to. I think those who sell at enhanced over the top prices may need to oversell their product to purchase the next gold plated speed boat, those of us who are content with a modest return our time & investment are happy selling ‘Local Honey’

 

[elainemary]

I’ve never used the term raw as it feels misleading and creates confusion. Local honey sells itself on its taste and it’s back story, that’s what buyers are interested in I’ve found.

Slightly off topic but related, I do find it odd that one of the criteria show judges use to judge honey is brightness & clarity. It’s likely that these show winning honies have been filtered within an inch of their life through fine grade filters and other tricks to create the clarity. This seems to go against the concept of unadulterated pure honey but is a key criteria on the show bench.

 

[PeaBee]

As most will sell their honey face to face or in local shops the honey sells its self without needing the Raw tag. But if you are relying on internet sales you need the traffic and if raw is a widely used search term then I can see why some who sell on internet may want to use it. Personally I dont use the term but let the local credentials sell it. I think the risk with the term raw is that if it is allowed for one it will be allowed for all so imported cheap jars will soon have it on and it will be worthless. At least they can never have a local geographic reference on it.

 

[Bumbling Keeper]

"And no - you can't use taste the difference ... Sainsbury already have it on their 100% pure - FOREIGN honey ..."

[/QUOTE]

I'm surprised at the assertion that one can't taste the difference; there is a distinctly different taste to the generic supermarket offerings, indeed there are distinct differences between our own bees' products around the country. There is also a distinct difference between 'adulterated' honey and our pure varieties.

 

[Murox]

Consumer rights, the promotion of quality, choice, and value for money, campaigning for the greater appreciation of traditional honey have all been hinted at - must be almost time to mount a serious campaign.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I’ve never used the term raw as it feels misleading and creates confusion.

How? How does it mislead and confuse?

But if you are relying on internet sales you need the traffic and if raw is a widely used search term then I can see why some who sell on internet may want to use it.

Indeed. face to face sale you can have a conversation with the buyer.
I have had many such on Messenger too after my honey goes on Facebook
marketplace
The answer may be to advertise it Raw but not put it on the label?

 

[Antipodes]

How do the big producers that supply the supermarkets, stop their honey crystallising? My honey, which is identical when first extracted, crystallises within 6 months. The supermarket honey (Leatherwood for instance), is still liquid now, but the flowers finished in February/March.

 

[Erichalfbee]

How do the big producers that supply the supermarkets, stop their honey crystallising? My honey, which is identical when first extracted, crystallises within 6 months.

Heat and rapidly cool? Would that do it?

 

[Antipodes]

Hear and rapidly cool? Would that do it?

You mean "heat" of course. Yes, perhaps/probably. So does that mean it's not raw?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Raw is not a description applicable to honey but if it were then the answer is no

 

[Erichalfbee]

You mean "heat" of course. Yes, perhaps/probably. So does that mean it's not raw?

Yes corrected. Fat finger strikes again

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How does it mislead and confuse?

Because it's a ridiculous term when applied to honey?