Plastic foundation

[Karol]

Any one use plastic foundation and if so how good is it? Any insights very much appreciated.

 

[B+.]

Any one use plastic foundation and if so how good is it? Any insights very much appreciated.

I still have 800 Pierco frames floating around in my hives many years after buying them from Sweinty.
They do the job. Especially useful when grafting (easy to see the larvae against the black of the plastic. Its easy to scrape them down and let the bees rebuild comb if it gets damaged.
My only concern is that you easily loose track on how long they've been in use and could harbour pathogens - so you may need to give some thought to how long you intend using them

 

[Hivemaker.]

Especially useful when grafting (easy to see the larvae against the black of the plastic.

How people differ, I find (and use) nice new white combs to graft larvae from, find them much easier to see the larvae in than on dark combs.

....there are lots of threads on plastic foundation, here are a few of them...

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32700&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42287&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=42872&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=40826&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=39375&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38399&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37615&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=3787&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27143&highlight=plastic+foundation

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21537&highlight=plastic+foundation

 

[Karol]

Thanks B+ and thanks Hivemaker. Haven't been able to trawl through all your links thoroughly Hivemaker but didn't notice anything on the size of the cells. How critical is the size of the cells in the plastic foundation?

 

[B+.]

Thanks B+ and thanks Hivemaker. Haven't been able to trawl through all your links thoroughly Hivemaker but didn't notice anything on the size of the cells. How critical is the size of the cells in the plastic foundation?

Unless you deliberately go out and ask for "small cell", you'll get standard size. I only have experience of Pierco (Langstroth) so can't comment about any other brand/format. I can only say that the bees were perfectly happy with it (better results in a flow when they'll draw it out just as quickly as natural wax). I wouldn't give them ALL plastic worker-base foundation though. Most colonies like to have some drones so give them a frame or two to draw drone cells on. That seems to work pretty well.
Since Hivemaker makes his own foundation, I'd be surprised if he didn't prefer it to plastic. For me, I can see positives and negatives with it

 

[Popparand]

Plastic? Yuk!

 

[B+.]

Plastic? Yuk!

As with most things in life, don't knock until you've tried it.
There are pros and cons to plastic just as there are to wood/wax. Nothing is ever perfect (if it was, we wouldn't have anything to complain about ;-) )

 

[Somerford]

Yes I have plastic in a number of hives - both brood chambers and supers.

Once drawn in the supers it makes for very easy scraping back, and largely the comb built is very uniform. However you need a good flow on to do this and make it exclusively plastic (I use moulded frames)

In the brood chamber, it started off by chance with a sample I received and I popped a couple in and the bees took to it very fast (mid spring) although I've since been told you need to have almost 100% plastic for them to draw it else they ignore it. Bit hard if that's all they have in an expanding brood box but hey ho.

A couple of beekeepers I have spoken to also use it (yellow plastic not black) and in larger frames cut a small corner out of the bottom of each frame either side to reflect what bees often do (chew through) as the corners often aren't drawn out. I'm 50/50 on this but can see it would work.

In terms of frame replacement - just put a digit on the frame eg 18 for 2018 and so on if that is of concern.

The frames in supers are black with black foundation, the ones in broods are wooden with plastic yellow type. Don't ask me why, but that's the way it is !

And as for seeing eggs - my eyes for a 44 yr old are 20:20 so lucky on that front but I do use those small hand held LED battery torches that the suppliers hand out as and when I need to.

KR

S

 

[Helen]

I use plastic almost exclusively. Yellow in supers, black in brood (14x12).

I roller extra wax onto each side before using.

Bees draw most out frames fine. On some, they draw small 'mounds' of comb across the face. At the edges of each 'mound', the cells lie alongside the plastic comb rather than outwards.

On one or two frames, they make vertical 'columns' of comb across the face.

And very occasionally they'll build comb in front of the plastic, from the top to bottom edge of frames. Meaning they can hide underneath the comb.

So, when I see these, I rub out the edges so the bees rebuild comb properly.

 

[Angry_Mob]

Where do you buy the plastic 14x12? Never seen it before.

 

[Helen]

Where do you buy the plastic 14x12? Never seen it before.

I use normal sized national plastic. Cut one in half and attach to bottom of another. Gives you 14x12.

 

[Hivemaker.]

I still have 800 Pierco frames floating around in my hives many years after buying them from Sweinty.
My only concern is that you easily loose track on how long they've been in use and could harbour pathogens - so you may need to give some thought to how long you intend using them

How many years do you estimate it will take to cycle out all your plastic foundation.

 

[B+.]

How many years do you estimate it will take to cycle out all your plastic foundation.

I really don't know. Some of it hasn't even been drawn out so it's effectively brand new. If I marked it in some way so that I knew how old it was, I'd happily use it (it does do the job very well), but, long term, I think I prefer the traditional wood/wax solution. It isn't even as though I live in a high-risk area for brood disease. If I did, I'd get rid of it sooner rather than later, but, living in a low-risk area, it doesn't make sense to dispose of it without getting my money worth.
To be clear about this: my concern is really just an acknowledgement that it MAY harbour pathogens with long-term use.

 

[Beefriendly]

To be clear about this: my concern is really just an acknowledgement that it MAY harbour pathogens with long-term use.

It's inert plastic B+, it's unlikely to harbour ANY pathogens. Even AFB spores will not penetrate it's boundaries. Of course I'd scrape the old manky beeswax off it every once in a while.

 

[Hivemaker.]

To be clear about this: my concern is really just an acknowledgement that it MAY harbour pathogens with long-term use.

Thank you, was just curious... as I remember a post you made a few years ago saying you were cycling it out because of that possibility.

 

[B+.]

Thank you, was just curious... as I remember a post you made a few years ago saying you were cycling it out because of that possibility.

Yes. That is my intention. Eventually, I will. I live in a low-risk area so there is little chance of it happening, but, I do recognise that there is a risk, however small. I suppose the risk is present in wood/wax too, but at least these are replaced on a fairly regular basis so there is an in-built control there. It's quite difficult to write on Pierco, even with permanent markers so keeping a track of their age is difficult.

 

[B+.]

It's inert plastic B+, it's unlikely to harbour ANY pathogens. Even AFB spores will not penetrate it's boundaries. Of course I'd scrape the old manky beeswax off it every once in a while.

Sorry. I wasn't very clear. I meant the wax that is drawn on the frames. Even scraping it down doesn't get rid of it all and the frames don't stand heat very well so boiling isn't really an option

 

[Hivemaker.]

I suppose the risk is present in wood/wax too, but at least these are replaced on a fairly regular basis so there is an in-built control there.

Of course, and apart from them possibly being replaced more often it can also be burnt and not so expensive to replace.

I have some creamy/white Pierco plastic foundation here, was given a few packs of it years ago, do you also use the white Pierco.

 

[B+.]

Of course, and apart from them possibly being replaced more often it can also be burnt and not so expensive to replace.

I have some creamy/white Pierco plastic foundation here, was given a few packs of it years ago, do you also use the white Pierco.

No. Only the black one-piece frame/foundation.
I bought quite a lot at £2/frame so that makes £20/box with no assembly necessary. Thornes' charge that just for the frames (not including wax or labour for assembly).
Of course, the potential loss from a brood disease would be substantial, so, that has to be considered too.
It's all just thinking about "what if" and what would I rather do in a bad situation.
Pierco is cheaper/easier but I am not sure if it is necessarily the right way to go.

 

[Torq]

And as for seeing eggs - my eyes for a 44 yr old are 20:20 so lucky on that front.

So were mine, then one day at about 47 I read something and it was slightly out of focus. That was the start of it, now at 51 it's reading glasses, even for eating dinner!