Plastic Foundation

[willis944]

Has anyone any experience of using plastic foundation. Questions like: how do the bees like it: how best to clean/sanitise it: best make: is it ok as brood: does plastic fit into regular wooden frames …….. etc

Thanks for any thoughts,

Willis

 

[Into the lions den]

Has anyone any experience of using plastic foundation. Questions like: how do the bees like it: how best to clean/sanitise it: best make: is it ok as brood: does plastic fit into regular wooden frames …….. etc

Thanks for any thoughts,

Willis

Yes. Used to even sell it as importer from the USA.

It turned out to be a very expensive landfill error for ourselves, with over 10,000 full frames and a similar number of cut to size sheets sent the same way.

We have reverted to wood and wax as in OUR climate the bees prefer it. The much superior robustness for extracting at speed will appeal to most (to me too) but the negatives outweighed the positives in the end.

Requires strong honey flows or heavy feeding to get it drawn correctly, and the black bees drew a lot of cross comb between sheets, so there was a lot of scraping off to do, but at least with plastic you can and encourage them to try again. Really good comb drawing bees do a perfect job on this. Would not recommend it to inexperienced beekeepers.

 

[willis944]

Thanks for the insight,

Willis

 

[Michael Palmer]

Requires strong honey flows or heavy feeding to get it drawn correctly, and the black bees drew a lot of cross comb between sheets, so there was a lot of scraping off to do, but at least with plastic you can and encourage them to try again. Really good comb drawing bees do a perfect job on this. Would not recommend it to inexperienced beekeepers.

Add additional beeswax by melting and painting on with foam paint brush

 

[mbc]

Add additional beeswax by melting and painting on with foam paint brush

Doesn't make much of a difference, our flows can be very stop start, which doesn't lend itself to drawing big areas of foundation, and anything which can discourage the bees, ie. plastic foundation, can, and in most cases will, lead to a God awful mess.

 

[thebeeman]

I have found plastic foundation to be very good! You have to prime the sheets as Michael said with a good amount of wax first. Do not mix the foundation in a hive or things get very messy. I tried the complete plastic frames they were a waste of money but wood frames with plastic foundation has worked very well.

The black foundation you can get makes seeing eggs very easy.
When the comb gets to dark and need replacing just scrape it off and put the frame back in the hive. If you need to sanitise clean with a washing soda solution rinse and re wax.
I started 10 test hives with Rite-Cell foundation 2 years ago and all have done well on it and overwintered without any issues from this year all new hives started will be on plastic foundation. In my mind it`s a no brainier never having to buy foundation again.

But at the end of the day its a matter of personal choice best to try a couple of hives with it if you like it carry on if you don`t not a lot lost.

 

[Into the lions den]

Add additional beeswax by melting and painting on with foam paint brush

Did every variation under the sun. Wax painted, wax dipped, wax sprayed. The bees here would rather swarm than tackle the unwaxed type.

Pierco in the end supplied everything triple waxed, and yes, it was a lot better, but still not the equal of wood and wax for acceptance.

Had Pierco, Rite cell, and Plasticell. I sold the former, and indeed still have stock.

All was well (ish) until the big EFB outbreak. Not easy to effectively sterilise a resin style plastic frame or foundation....and a real health and safety minefield if you need to burn it, a deed of great interest to your local environmental protection agency.

For rewaxing, similar to the beeman, scrape off all the old cells. You can give it back to them at that stage, but if you have a tank of hot molten beeswax you can repeatedly dip the foundation in the wax and soon all the dark cocoons come off, then a sharp knock on the inside wall of the tank shakes off the excess wax, and you are ready to give it back to the bees.

 

[user 20297]

I am well aware that there are many potential negative aspects of the use plastic foundation (some of which I have experienced already). But I have some reasons for wanting to make a limited, but determined third attempt with the stuff next year. One of those reasons is the research I have heard of into the possible damage to brood, wax and honey that may be caused by the leaching of trace elements and iron from reinforcement wire. Is anyone aware of studies that show any implications for human or bee health of using food-safe, plastic foundation?

 

[JamezF]

Sometimes foundation is useful, but if you're that worried why not let the bees build all their own comb (or at least as much as is practical)?

James

 

[user 20297]

Sometimes foundation is useful, but if you're that worried why not let the bees build all their own comb (or at least as much as is practical)?

James

Thanks. Yes, I'm already committed to having the majority of my frames without using foundation and so far I have mainly used various patterns of (allegedly) stainless-steel wire to help support them for spinning. Even then, in my locality where the bees continue to find a lot of nectar well into August and September, all of the honey stored from August onwards is thickened with heather. So I'm looking at several strategies for next year for getting at that honey, and one of them is plastic foundation.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

Tried it in supers for eight seasons, give up now and all will be Manley frames & wax foundation.

 

[elainemary]

Thanks. Yes, I'm already committed to having the majority of my frames without using foundation and so far I have mainly used various patterns of (allegedly) stainless-steel wire to help support them for spinning. Even then, in my locality where the bees continue to find a lot of nectar well into August and September, all of the honey stored from August onwards is thickened with heather. So I'm looking at several strategies for next year for getting at that honey, and one of them is plastic foundation.

I experimented with plastic foundation but for supers only last year. It’s excellent when drawn for spinning out heather blends after loosening. As others have said you need a strong flow and a good comb builder and brush on moulten wax beforehand. I’d get drawn on a good spring flow, then extract as normal and save for the heather flow in aug. For pure heather id use unwired foundation and press the heather out. I’ve bought the equivalent of 4 more supers of plastic foundation for this coming season for my bees that collect a blend of heather and balsam.

 

[rdartington]

I am surprised by the support for plastic foundation in brood frames As that would seem to make rasing drones impossible - as colonies must have drones to operate naturally, does plastic brood foundation force colonies to raise drones in supers?
If supers are also plastic, what do colonies do?
Or are beekeepers today wholly uninterested in supporting colonies to operate naturally? Just exploit them to make honey for their ‘owners’?

 

[Ian123]

Or are beekeepers today wholly uninterested in supporting colonies to operate naturally? Just exploit them to make honey for their ‘owners’?

Lol……well I suppose it’s almost Christmas. Do you keep bees in hives have you taken honey from them have you EXPLOITED them?
I’d suggest any half competent beekeeper gives his bees a far better chance than anything natural!
I tried some plastic foundation many years ago and didn’t get on with it. But why criticise those that do. The same argument gets thrown about with complete boxes of worker foundation. If bees want drones they will find space or convert cells it’s quite simple. I over produce drones at home in the hope of influencing mating, I guess that’s bad or not natural? I’ve never noticed my bees being overly happy due to excess boys.
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Or are beekeepers today wholly uninterested in supporting colonies to operate naturally?

to make that statement, then to keep bees in a wooden (or polystyrene) box smack a tad of either hypocrisy or a total lack of self awareness

 

[user 20297]

I am surprised by the support for plastic foundation in brood frames As that would seem to make rasing drones impossible - as colonies must have drones to operate naturally, does plastic brood foundation force colonies to raise drones in supers?
If supers are also plastic, what do colonies do?
Or are beekeepers today wholly uninterested in supporting colonies to operate naturally? Just exploit them to make honey for their ‘owners’?

In my case and I suspect in many others in the UK, I don't use 100% plastic foundation. There's no shortage of drones in my hives. I'm still wondering if the stuff is properly food-safe.

 

[rossbyjove]

Has anyone any experience of using plastic foundation. Questions like: how do the bees like it: how best to clean/sanitise it: best make: is it ok as brood: does plastic fit into regular wooden frames …….. etc

Thanks for any thoughts,

Willis

I was given a frame with plastic foundation on it with my swarm.
The Bees ain't that keen on it.
One side they filled about a third, the other side they built the entire comb away from the foundation and I could not see what was going on behind it.
I can see some people think it's useful but I would not use it again.

 

[Wingy]

Have had mixed results mostly positive though. Have been using both wood frames and wax as well as wood frames with plastic foundation since 2018. Only complete disaster was not pre waxing first and they made one hell of a mess building their own comb in-between the frames. Now with 27 colonies just gone into winter some on plastic some wax and some mix & match, once drawn it doesn’t seem to make any difference to the bees. From drawing in the first place I have had a couple of colonies just point blank refuse to get started on it.
Regards standard wooden frames, yes it fits no problem I just put a staple through the bottom bars to stop the plastic sheet slipping.
Cleaning scrape off and re use
One real issue could be (luckily I have no experience of to date) should you be unlucky enough to have to destroy a colony due to disease AFB for example it’s questionable if the plastic frames could be burnt - I suggest not. Disposal could be expensive if they need to be dealt with as contagious clinical waste.

 

[deemann1]

Do we really need plastic foundation all that faffing no thanks .

 

[Angry_Mob]

I tested the plastic foundation in 15 supers this year and liked it so bought another 200 sheets to make up some more. Makes extracting much easier, especially heather honey.

The frames are quicker to build as well.