Paynes, closing?!

[JamezF]

Looks like someone got to all the roofs. I can't find them listed on the site any more.

James

 

[Into the lions den]

Not been on here for ages as I am way way too busy......so much on. However just wanted to add into this post as rumours are circulating that I may be acquiring the Paynes moulds. Not true. Had a couple of calls about that this morning andno, not likely to go down that road.....Did think about it and asked the question BUT this is a cramped market and making much out of it would be hard, and would only want the nucs anyway.

Also important to note that moulds have a finite life...no idea how far through its design life any of these are, and you DONT get the mould anyway...you get the rights to have items moulded from it but the mould stays with the maker. Bit like printing plates used to be...you know you pay all the costs...but the printer or moulder keeps a critical share and hve you by the short ones of you want to move maker.

 

[Rory Fields]

Not been on here for ages as I am way way too busy......so much on. However just wanted to add into this post as rumours are circulating that I may be acquiring the Paynes moulds. Not true. Had a couple of calls about that this morning andno, not likely to go down that road.....Did think about it and asked the question BUT this is a cramped market and making much out of it would be hard, and would only want the nucs anyway.

Also important to note that moulds have a finite life...no idea how far through its design life any of these are, and you DONT get the mould anyway...you get the rights to have items moulded from it but the mould stays with the maker. Bit like printing plates used to be...you know you pay all the costs...but the printer or moulder keeps a critical share and hve you by the short ones of you want to move maker.

If you took the mould and removed the internal feeder, I think you'd have a pretty unique product - I'm certainly finding the bees love the nucs once butchered into 8 framers and with similarly resculpted extension boxes.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you took the mould and removed the internal feeder, I think you'd have a pretty unique product - I'm certainly finding the bees love the nucs once butchered into 8 framers and with similarly resculpted extension boxes.

Didn’t Paynes produce their nuc with a removable feeder or am I imagining?

 

[Rory Fields]

Didn’t Paynes produce their nuc with a removable feeder or am I imagining?

That's their Langstroth version.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ah…. Thanks.

 

[JamezF]

To follow up about the roofs that Philip was talking about... I didn't realise that he was talking about poly ones rather than wooden. The Paynes poly boxes are (according to my measurements) 500mm square, so a box made of 50mm thick PIR should work just fine. And as a bonus is much easier to source than the 40mm PIR I had to find to make nuc boxes that would fit under a wooden roof.

James

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I wonder how many nucs they have sold since they introduced them. Does anyone have any info?

 

[enrico]

I wonder how many nucs they have sold since they introduced them. Does anyone have any info?

I have some that must be fifteen years old now

 

[Anduril]

I have some that must be fifteen years old now

Since 2011 for nucs

https://paynesbeefarm.co.uk/pages/o...nes released in,mass market for UK beekeepers.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

I have some that must be fifteen years old now

I bought some early ones with the slot entrance rather than the rotating disk. They were modified to 8-frame and are still in use.

 

[JamezF]

I have some that must be fifteen years old now

I have some that can't be very much newer.

James

 

[enrico]

I bought some early ones with the slot entrance rather than the rotating disk. They were modified to 8-frame and are still in use.

Yep, no discs on mine and no internal roof which means they stick the frames to the roof. They are on stumpy legs too so the bees underfly. I generally only use the to collect swarms in!

 

[Swarm]

Yep, no discs on mine and no internal roof which means they stick the frames to the roof. They are on stumpy legs too so the bees underfly. I generally only use the to collect swarms in!

They were a bit soft as well, mine had the entrances enlarged

 

[JamezF]

They are on stumpy legs too

Oi! There's nothing wrong with stumpy legs!

James

 

[Into the lions den]

If you took the mould and removed the internal feeder, I think you'd have a pretty unique product - I'm certainly finding the bees love the nucs once butchered into 8 framers and with similarly resculpted extension boxes.

If whoever gets the mould does that they have sold me the last one. 6 frames is about right for me. If it needs 8 it needs a full box. Suits us fine as it is....and when full promote or subdivide. Would change to another brand or....more likely....get a new mould made with a heavier roof.

Not keen on the ones that are two in one either...or the ones with lots of fiddly bits to lose.

All the makes have their drawbacks.

Do appreciate everyone uses them their own way.

Word is there are numerous indications of interest. Only know who two of them are. Not in the running and pricing up own mould.

 

[Rory Fields]

If whoever gets the mould does that they have sold me the last one. 6 frames is about right for me. If it needs 8 it needs a full box. Suits us fine as it is....and when full promote or subdivide. Would change to another brand or....more likely....get a new mould made with a heavier roof.

Not keen on the ones that are two in one either...or the ones with lots of fiddly bits to lose.

All the makes have their drawbacks.

Do appreciate everyone uses them their own way.

Word is there are numerous indications of interest. Only know who two of them are. Not in the running and pricing up own mould.

Fair enough. Jury's still out for me too on 2 in 1 nucs, though I use BS's as ordinary 6 framers and they're excellent. You're a decent stretch further north than me but I think your forage is better so often an 8 frame would suit me as an intermediate step, and certainly as a double-nuc of 16 frames for overwintering - haven't found anything better for the sheep country here at the start of the Tyne by the tip of the Pennines. Greatly enjoyed both your interview in Steve Donohoe's first book and the foreword in his second - too much to hope you'd ever write down your experiences in the future? I've been told 40k for a mould is standard so if true it'd have to be someone big or someone new with a tonne of start-up to get it going. Vaguely had the thought of trying to crowd-fund collectively with other beekeepers for the Paynes nuc (don't like their hive, sorry)... then I remembered we're beekeepers! We can't agree on anything!

 

[Wilco]

Fair enough. Jury's still out for me too on 2 in 1 nucs, though I use BS's as ordinary 6 framers and they're excellent. You're a decent stretch further north than me but I think your forage is better so often an 8 frame would suit me as an intermediate step, and certainly as a double-nuc of 16 frames for overwintering - haven't found anything better for the sheep country here at the start of the Tyne by the tip of the Pennines. Greatly enjoyed both your interview in Steve Donohoe's first book and the foreword in his second - too much to hope you'd ever write down your experiences in the future? I've been told 40k for a mould is standard so if true it'd have to be someone big or someone new with a tonne of start-up to get it going. Vaguely had the thought of trying to crowd-fund collectively with other beekeepers for the Paynes nuc (don't like their hive, sorry)... then I remembered we're beekeepers! We can't agree on anything!

They're planning on selling all moulds together if possible so it's likely to be a fair whack.

 

[Into the lions den]

They're planning on selling all moulds together if possible so it's likely to be a fair whack.

That's something I heard too. As I have heard I think most want to cherry pick an item or two. 40K for a mould as mentioned in someone elses post does seem a bit OTT..but then it all depends on the complexity of the mould...rockets up if there are moving parts....as is needed for hand holds that are not the full depth of the box side.

 

[Wilco]

That's something I heard too. As I have heard I think most want to cherry pick an item or two. 40K for a mould as mentioned in someone elses post does seem a bit OTT..but then it all depends on the complexity of the mould...rockets up if there are moving parts....as is needed for hand holds that are not the full depth of the box side.

I think the BS one cost less than that but obviously there's the nuc mould plus nuc extension plus all the hive ones (for Paynes) so it will likely add up. 40k for a single mould is in excess of what a single mould is likely to have cost them based on the ballpark overall figure I've heard for all.