Patience is key

[Pete D]

Beekeeping teaches you many things but without doubt one of the biggest things it has taught me is patience.
I had a queen emerge 1/5/16, verified at the car boot hive session in the afternoon. I have checked on the 25/5 and 4/6 for brood and seen none. I remained patient having done the sums and had another look today following the spell of better weather. Eggs and 1-2 day old larvae were seen which backed up my previous notes highlighting 'polished' cells.
So those of you waiting for a queen to come into lay, be patient, do the sums and relax.
Certainly don't go out buying queens unless you are 200% queenless or have found and disposed of the 'duff' queen. Adding frames of eggs / young brood helps keep the population up and ensures young bees for brood feeding but you have to avoid messing up the long awaited mating flight.
To back this up I have 2 nuc's made up with virgin queens on the 9/5, both of these had eggs today.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well said Pete - unfortunately we have some duffers on this forum telling beginners that if a queen isn't laying two weeks after emergence she's a dud!!

 

[Obee1]

What about a purchased mated queen - that has been in a travelling cage in the post. How long would you expect to wait for her to lay?

 

[Finman]

Beekeeping teaches you many things but without doubt one of the biggest things it has taught me is patience.
I had a queen emerge 1/5/16, verified at the car boot hive session in the afternoon. I have checked on the 25/5 and 4/6 for brood and seen none. I remained patient having done the sums and had another look today following the spell of better weather. Eggs and 1-2 day old larvae were seen which backed up my previous notes highlighting 'polished' cells.
So those of you waiting for a queen to come into lay, be patient, do the sums and relax.
Certainly don't go out buying queens unless you are 200% queenless or have found and disposed of the 'duff' queen. Adding frames of eggs / young brood helps keep the population up and ensures young bees for brood feeding but you have to avoid messing up the long awaited mating flight.
To back this up I have 2 nuc's made up with virgin queens on the 9/5, both of these had eggs today.

Patience dies not help, if the queen is now 6 weeks old. It is drone layer, if it lays.

It has gone 2 brood cycles. Patience is not in this case a virtue.

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[Pete D]

3-4 days, week at most.
I normally look a week after she has been released by the bees from the cage and see eggs and larvae. Had one once that the cage wasn't opened enough and she was still in, all OK a week later.
These are normally my own that have mated in Apideas and introduced to a nuc in a cage, left 3 days then open flap to let them eat in / out.

 

[Pete D]

Patience dies not help, if the queen is now 6 weeks old. It is drone layer, if it lays.

It has gone 2 brood cycles. Patience is not in this case a virtue.

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The queen discussed above is not a drone layer.

This post is aimed at those who announce they are queenless or have a duff queen a couple weeks or so after she has emerged. Its advising them to be patient for another week or so, its not advocating 6+ weeks.

 

[Tremyfro]

What about a purchased mated queen - that has been in a travelling cage in the post. How long would you expect to wait for her to lay?

My carniolan queen was introduced to a queenless colony on 22/5. Looked in a week later...but I couldn't see eggs...the light was poor, weather was poor and we needed to get the hive closed. So there may have been some. Looked 8/6 ...eggs everywhere...lots and lots.

 

[Fatbee]

Absolutely agree I always seem to expect queens should be laying a week before they ever do. Although this year I've had quite speedy layers. But around me I think the weather has been better than preceding years in May

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

It depends on the weather. Good conditions here and I have larvae from a 1 June emergence. Others have for sure gone missing on mating flights. Needs judgment.


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[Hivemaker.]

Many of the mated laying queens I have introduced over the last couple of months (direct introduction) have been laying within a couple of minutes, an hour at the most.

 

[B+.]

Many of the mated laying queens I have introduced over the last couple of months (direct introduction) have been laying within a couple of minutes, an hour at the most.

I think you'll agree that mated queens that have spent a while in the post may not lay for a while though. If you take mated queens from one site and introduce them straight away at another site, they'll just continue doing what they did in the old hive

 

[B+.]

What about a purchased mated queen - that has been in a travelling cage in the post. How long would you expect to wait for her to lay?

I would leave this sort of queen in a push-in cage for several days. If I see no aggression from the workers and eggs in the cells, I would release her.

 

[pargyle]

One of my A/S queens last year was nearly a month before she started to lay ... I was really getting to the point where my patience had expired and then lo and behold .. wall to wall eggs and larvae ... I know a 'real' beekeeper would probably not wait that long but she's a cracker of a queen this season so I'm glad I waited. I'm not usually big on patience ... It's good advice Pete.

 

[domino]

One of my A/S queens last year was nearly a month before she started to lay ... I was really getting to the point where my patience had expired and then lo and behold .. wall to wall eggs and larvae ... I know a 'real' beekeeper would probably not wait that long but she's a cracker of a queen this season so I'm glad I waited. I'm not usually big on patience ... It's good advice Pete.

I had the same, it got to five weeks and I was preparing to unity and to my surprise there were eggs.

 

[Eyeman]

Adding frames of eggs / young brood helps keep the population up and ensures young bees for brood feeding but you have to avoid messing up the long awaited mating flight.

A couple of scenarios that I think I adopt in the field! I rear my own queens so I can be a bit more cavalier in my approach. Those using expensive bought in queens may need to be more patient.

If there are no Eggs / Larvae 3 weeks after the expected date of queens emergence or virgins insertion:
1. Following an A/S on a full size hive- a test frame goes in weekly until Q right (eggs/larvae) or Q-less (queen cells).
2. In a mini mating nuc-
A. If they aren't drawing the starter strips of foundation the bees are thrown out in front of a nearby hive and I start again
B. If they have drawn starter strips +\- queen is seen then I inspect in 1 week. If still no eggs and I have a spare QC or vigin the bees removed and I start again.
3. In a 3 frame nuc- test frame goes in and inspect in 1 week and if no QC's.
A. If queen seen then leave another week.
B. If no queen seen then remove bees and unite remaining test frame brood with another hive and start again.
4. In a 5 frame nuc- action is somewhere between No 1 and No 3 above depending on the following variables.

Variables
1. How may QC's or virgins I have waiting to go into my limited amount of nucs. If I've got a lot waiting then I tend to abandon the nucs earlier.
2. If there are strong indicators the nuc is Q-less ie. bees flapping wings on comb or dead queen seen then nucs are requeened with virgins or QC's.

 

[Finman]

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I do not waste hives resources by waiting laying. After two weeks I get from somewhere a laying queen and in May I wait only 2 days.

At the beginning of summer it is essential that queen lays all the time.
That hive is lost as a honey producer if it had not layed in whole May.

It may lay even after 6 months, but I do not need such layers..
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At the beginning of sorng I squeezes some queens

- wrong color (carniolan, swarmy genes via drones)
- front leg missing
- 20% out of brood area holes. Larvae propably died for inbreeding
- drone layer
- too small cluster ... Coffee cup size.
- 3 five frame colonies. I joined them to one.

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[Hivemaker.]

I think you'll agree that mated queens that have spent a while in the post may not lay for a while though.

That is why I said I do this only with mated laying queens.

 

[For want of a better word]

Even mated and laying queens are worth introducing to a nuc... once checked can be made up to a full colony,
Colonies with no queen or drone layer are best split down to make up nucs.. never seen the sense in trying to requeen a colony, when it seems to frustrate beffuddle and bemuse yer average beeminder!

Yeghes da

 

[Binge]

Conversely, as there's always an alternative perspective, but not to say I'm totally in agreement with Finman, I think it was patience that did for 3 of our colonies last year.
May/June was poop here and in hindsight I think we ended up with 3 poorly mated queens.
All other treatment was as usual.
We hung on and hung on hoping they'd pick up, only to see them dwindle to nothing over the horrible, warm, wet winter.
In hindsight, I think we'd have had nothing to lose in squishing the queens and starting again, or buying in new.
Slightly different scenario, I acknowledge, but patience isn't always the key, she can be a bad girl at times too.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Conversely, as there's always an alternative perspective, but not to say I'm totally in agreement with Finman, I think it was patience that did for 3 of our colonies last year.
May/June was poop here and in hindsight I think we ended up with 3 poorly mated queens.
All other treatment was as usual.
We hung on and hung on hoping they'd pick up, only to see them dwindle to nothing over the horrible, warm, wet winter.
In hindsight, I think we'd have had nothing to lose in squishing the queens and starting again, or buying in new.
Slightly different scenario, I acknowledge, but patience isn't always the key, she can be a bad girl at times too.

Last here around here was a lottery - nothing to do with period of waiting for the queen to be mated. Had queens mated in a couple of weeks dwindle by Christmas and some that waited an inordinately long time that at the moment I'm even struggling to catch up with their laying during a Demarree.