Oxalic Acid

[jenkinsbrynmair]

(except JBM, who doesn't appear to believe that green vegetables are human food

I'll have you know that I do eat a mainly plant based diet - I just wait for it to get consumed by pigs, cows, poultry and sheep first

 

[ericbeaumont]

potentially silly question

There are none.

 

[ericbeaumont]

if there is already a super on ... should that come off before vaping?

US law permits vaping in the presence of honey and it's dopey UK that's behind the times.

EU bee organisations clubbed together years ago to fund research to demonstrate the effect of OA on honey (result: almost zero) but the UK lot declined to contribute.

If you've had a dream that an SBI might pop out from behind a hedge and nab you, take the super off, slap a sheet of newspaper on, put the super back and vape. Bees will demolish the paper when they need space.

PS: check the super isn't full of set ivy, because bees won't shift it to make room for spring nectar.

 

[pargyle]

I'll have you know that I do eat a mainly plant based diet - I just wait for it to get consumed by pigs, cows, poultry and sheep first

And so, as they are all Vegans, you could claim to be a second tier Vegan...

 

[Nick Lang]

Just to mention.....although stated by others here OA is not toxic if consumed etc ...if you vaporise it, it's very dangerous to inhale...so make sure you take precautions to wear the right protection...suitable mask....goggles and gloves...etc

 

[blackcloud]

The important thing is to get and do it.
Get a cheap wand-type off eBay and some crystals and see how you get on.It might not last long but its a good starting point.
After that you can develop your own methods that suit your setup.
(and snarl at anyone who begs to differ- its the law)

 

[Beedogg]

Thanks everyone

 

[JamezF]

I'll have you know that I do eat a mainly plant based diet - I just wait for it to get consumed by pigs, cows, poultry and sheep first

Perhaps it's only natural for a beekeeper to want something else to eat their food first

James

 

[Beedogg]

Final question from a non-chemist. Is the Oxalic Acid we talk about as the active ingredient in Apibioxal the same stuff as Oxalic Acid dihydrate?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes

 

[Beedogg]

Made up some ekes for the purpose of vaping from above and then vaped my colonies using a sublimox. Seemed quite uneventful. The bees seemed fairly unpeturbed by it all.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Made up some ekes for the purpose of vaping from above and then vaped my colonies using a sublimox. Seemed quite uneventful. The bees seemed fairly unpeturbed by it all.

They don’t bother. Easy to do in the middle of the day when they are flying. You don’t need to shut the entrance

 

[Beedogg]

It's a step-by-step learning process. Which is one of the reasons I really enjoy this bee-keeping thing.

 

[Paul_Ward1]

They don’t bother. Easy to do in the middle of the day when they are flying. You don’t need to shut the entrance

I thought you needed all the bees in the hive when vaping so they get covered? I’ve always closed the entrances and done early morning or evening when they are all in and with varroa trays fitted to seal the mesh floor. If it’s effective without all this faff, that’s a winner

 

[Ian123]

I thought you needed all the bees in the hive when vaping so they get covered? I’ve always closed the entrances and done early morning or evening when they are all in and with varroa trays fitted to seal the mesh floor. If it’s effective without all this faff, that’s a winner

If you want to bother doing that fine, it’ll do no harm. But the crystals remain active or in the hive for some time and foragers will return…. So simply pay your money take the choice. I suspect most don’t bother.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Just to mention.....although stated by others here OA is not toxic if consumed etc ...if you vaporise it, it's very dangerous to inhale...so make sure you take precautions to wear the right protection...suitable mask....goggles and gloves...etc

Having been raised post WW2 I recall a story from my schooldays (and it may only have been a story) about "a man from the ministry" advising Britton's to eat the leaves as well as the stalks of rhubarb and hundreds being poisoned. Google also has a link to a newspaper article claiming poisonous effects of oxalic acid in rhubarb leaves. Common plants Britons eat regularly that can be toxic
Consequently I'll err on the side of caution and stick to only consuming rhubarb stems to minimize my dosage but ill still eat carrots thank you

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I thought you needed all the bees in the hive when vaping so they get covered? I’ve always closed the entrances and done early morning or evening when they are all in and with varroa trays fitted to seal the mesh floor. If it’s effective without all this faff, that’s a winner

No, not true, the foragers who are out during the actual vape will get it when they return - the micro crystals will have covered every surface of the hive and will remain for days so any latecomers will get covered bu contact with other bees or surfaces within the hive

Just to mention.....although stated by others here OA is not toxic if consumed

Not toxic?
That will be why it's on part I of the poisons list order 1982 then

 

[JamezF]

Not toxic?
That will be why it's on part I of the poisons list order 1982 then

I think it's fair to suggest that it's not necessarily toxic in that eating vegetables that contain OA (or oxalate ions), even those containing more than rhubarb (eg. parsley, spinach, swiss chard, chives) won't necessarily kill you or even make you ill. Consuming large amounts is probably going to give one's kidneys a fairly testing time though, potentially to the point of failure. But there are sure to be plenty of other common substances we don't panic about that will do the same.

According to the USDA carrots contain as much OA as rhubarb leaves, which makes me wonder whether the stories about people dying after eating rhubarb leaves during both world wars are perhaps misunderstood or have been misinterpreted because we don't know the full story. I can't find much useful information on the interwebs specifically relating to the wartime experiences, but one paper suggests that based on the LD50 figure for rats, someone weighing 60kg would need to eat close to four and a half kilos of rhubarb leaves to consume a similar proportion of OA. I'm therefore inclined to believe that the people who are claimed to have died as a result of eating rhubarb leaves (and I don't believe the numbers are very high at all) actually died because of other complications or because of something else entirely that is present in rhubarb leaves and that it was nothing to do with oxalic acid at all.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

whatever - the fact is, Oxalic acid (not rhubarb) is toxic and has been recognised as such by the powers that be, and it's toxicity is such that it warrants being listed on the poisons list in the same section as arsenic, cyanide and mercury. So nick Lang's assertion that OA is not toxic is untrue and dangerously misleading

 

[fian]

But the LD50 rate for contact around 500mg/kg of weight is not the same as the LD50 for oral ingestion of only 15/30 mg per person, even kidney problems have been reported due to oxalic ingestion with rates below 10 mg.