Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

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pargyle 

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Tripe.
Of course you can decide when you are going to treat, far better idea than hanging on for a chance of more honey. Temperatures are less favourable the later you leave it so some treatments are less effective
Remember, OAV is not licenced and neither is multiple vaping with the licenced stuff.
Well.... if you took the trouble to read the title of the thread you would see that the treatment the OP was talking about was OA by sublimation so temperature does not come in to the equation and I think everyone is aware of the ridiculous limitations imposed by the VMD on OA by sublimation.
 

Monbees 

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Well.... if you took the trouble to read the title of the thread you would see that the treatment the OP was talking about was OA by sublimation so temperature does not come in to the equation and I think everyone is aware of the ridiculous limitations imposed by the VMD on OA by sublimation.
Actually I am not aware of the ridiculous limitations imposed by VMD on OA by sublimation. Are these multiple vapes which many of us undertake, illegal then?
 

Swarm 

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"pargyle, post: 795254, member: 9418"]
Well.... if you took the trouble to read the title of the thread you would see that the treatment the OP was talking about was OA by sublimation so temperature does not come in to the equation and I think everyone is aware of the ridiculous limitations imposed by the VMD on OA by sublimation.
Well ... if you take a look at my reply and notice the quote, it is obvious I was replying to Citrus?
 

pargyle 

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Actually I am not aware of the ridiculous limitations imposed by VMD on OA by sublimation. Are these multiple vapes which many of us undertake, illegal then?
Yes:

That is, of course, if you are using the only licenced product Apibioxal ... if you are using generic OA then that's illegal .... which is why the VMD's limitations are ridiculous. They had the opportunity when we were in the EU to align with the rest of the EU where generic OA can be used (and had been tested and approved for years) but they decided, in their ridiculous wisdom, not to align.

So .. only Apibioxal (which does not work well applied by sublimation because the sugar in it leaves a residue in the electric application device, in a single dose, which does not catch all the mites.

Theoretically - using it in a Gas powered device could also be considered illegal but I doubt that a prosecution would ensue over that any more than a prosecution would occur if you presented yourself to the VMD and confessed you had treated them three times at four day intervals .... with the approved product.

The situation is total nonsense.
 

pargyle 

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Well ... if you take a look at my reply and notice the quote, it is obvious I was replying to Citrus?
Is that Citrus who said "Interested in this ... I did a speculative vape the other night (gasvape under the mesh floor thru the gap in the payne poly hive) ... and was wondering about the spacing ... but you think I should repeat the vape 4 times in 20days ... my feeling is doing it around now is helping winter bees formation .... that said last year i did do vaping around dec - when do you do it ?"

Errr ... isn't that with Oxalic acid ?
 

Swarm 

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When did you treat? I remember you saying last week you’d brought some Ivy supers home?
And yes you CAN decide when to treat but I think what others mean is the timing of that decision is moveable depending on weather and flow…… like late balsam
Treatment started September. Yes a few hives were used for Ivy. Anything from September is Winter stores.
 

Swarm 

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Is that Citrus who said "Interested in this ... I did a speculative vape the other night (gasvape under the mesh floor thru the gap in the payne poly hive) ... and was wondering about the spacing ... but you think I should repeat the vape 4 times in 20days ... my feeling is doing it around now is helping winter bees formation .... that said last year i did do vaping around dec - when do you do it ?"

Errr ... isn't that with Oxalic acid ?
I'm sensing a little hostility Phil.
Again, read what he said in the quote I was replying to, please.
 

Erichalfbee 

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Actually I am not aware of the ridiculous limitations imposed by VMD on OA by sublimation. Are these multiple vapes which many of us undertake, illegal then?
Yes. Apibioxal is licensed for single use and Oxalic strips aren't licensed at all. Abelo seem to have removed them from sale anyway but they are selling a 12V "sublimox" for a mouth watering price
 
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MJNT 

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Under the veterinary medicine cascade if deemed necessary you can apply to use authorised medicines available outside of the UK to treat the same species for the same disease and the ineffectiveness of a single apibioxal treatment applied at a time of year when other licenced medicine is not suitable is easily demonstrated with varroa counts so would justify this. I don’t know if the generic oxalic acid used elsewhere in Europe ( the continent ) comes in an authorised form there or if the agreement of the equivalent to the vmd in Europe approving the use of oxalic acid makes it the equivalent of an authorised medicine but unless I’m missing the bl***ing obvious if you apply to import oxalic acid rather than use “wood bleach “ it sounds as if it would be ok … and a small quantity could last many many years unless it has had to have an (daft) expiration date . Withdrawal periods in such cases can be set by vet using relevant data ( apibioxal data presumably would do or if not considered applicable after multiple applications I assume there must be studies of repeated oxalic acid and residues that could be cited) ??
 

Moobee 

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Winter bees are already mostly out of their cells by now, and if you haven't treated yet then they probably shared those cells with varroa mites, and thus may have viruses of some sort - vaping in late October is too late to help them with that.

You need to be culling the mite population in August and September, so that there are fewer mites around to infect the winter bees as they develop in September and October.

But if you haven't done it at all, then yes, do it now, using the timetable JBM set out. Just do it earlier in future years, IMHO.
Depends where you are IMHO. I didn’t remove supers until late September and treated then. Bees were still very active and bringing in a lot of stores and raising brood due to the warm weather.
 

Little_bees 

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Depends where you are IMHO. I didn’t remove supers until late September and treated then. Bees were still very active and bringing in a lot of stores and raising brood due to the warm weather.
Doesn't only depend where you are.
It's not just dependent on forage being available, but also on whether you decide to harvest that September honey or to leave it for the bees.

A beekeeper can choose to delay treating so that they can maximise on the late honey, but then they are also choosing to allow the August-reared portion of the winter bees to be raised in a higher varroa presence.

Individual beekeepers make individual choices but no choices are consequence- free.
 

Moobee 

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Doesn't only depend where you are.
It's not just dependent on forage being available, but also on whether you decide to harvest that September honey or to leave it for the bees.

A beekeeper can choose to delay treating so that they can maximise on the late honey, but then they are also choosing to allow the August-reared portion of the winter bees to be raised in a higher varroa presence.

Individual beekeepers make individual choices but no choices are consequence- free.
I beg to differ. I’m bang on the coast so we have a warmer overall climate than inland. Everything flowers for longer and later (we still had blackberries flowering last month) so the bees are still very active foraging and boxes full of brood. One hive superseded the queen at the end of September last year. Left a whole super for the bees for winter despite extracting in September.
My bees don’t seem to start getting ready for winter until about a month later than those inland. My mentor a few miles along the coast is the same.
 

Little_bees 

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I’m bang on the coast so we have a warmer overall climate than inland.

My bees don’t seem to start getting ready for winter until about a month later than those inland.
The bees will still work to the internal clock for their species. So although they may brood later into the autumn if it's warm and food is available, the first winter bees will still be being raised in August.

The bees can't foretell a mild autumn because they've never experienced an autumn before. They go by what's been evolutionarily programmed.
 

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