Oxalic Acid Treatment

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Woodchip 

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Hi, I'm a first year novice with 2 poly hives in the same apiary. Each hive is a national brood box with a super of honey above, the QE's removed and mouse guards fitted. I am planning to treat them over the Christmas period with oxalic acid solution applied using a syringe.

If the seams of bees are in the brood box I plan to remove the super and apply the acid, then replace the super and lid. If any seems of bees are in the super I plan to apply the acid to the super.

Q1: Is this correct?
Q2: If the acid has to be applied down the super does this mean that any honey extracted form this super in the future would potentially be contaminated?

I apologise if I am asking the obvious but I would like to plan it all before I start.

Thanks.
 

BrianO 

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Hi

Problem is *if* you are removing super, to get to bees, you are effectively having to go through a quite disruptive process with your hive, given it is mid winter, and with regard to breaking propolis seals, heat loss and generally disrupting them.

Better option in hindsight would have placed super of stores underneath, bees then can move from these limited stores, up to brood box stores.

My read on it after a steep learning curve ! :)

Should be no contamination as acid vapourises

Cheers
Brian
 

Erichalfbee 

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They may not need any treatment, especially if you treated them with thymol in the autumn. Put your monitoring boards in for a few days and check the drop then make a decision.
I treated my seven colonies with sublimated oxalic and it's obvious that only two needed it. They were the only ones that were not given autumn thymol (they got June MAQS alone)
I'm coming round to not bothering with winter oxalic, provided an effective autumn treatment is given. Quite a few very experienced beekeepers on this forum don't.
 

farbee 

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There was a nice idea on a recent thread to deal with the situation where the bees are lower down in double brood hive. Use a tube attached to the syringe. Could do the same here so that the hive does not need to be disturbed by removing the super.
 

itma 

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I'm coming round to not bothering with winter oxalic, provided an effective autumn treatment is given. Quite a few very experienced beekeepers on this forum don't.
On the other hand, I'm coming round to the idea that Beginners actually should be encouraged initially to treat with Apiguard and Oxalic, by rote, whether or not they think their bees need it.
And then having got through the first couple of years without catastrophic losses (or at least any due to varroa), then they can start deciding what they think their bees' situation actually needs.

However, at the beginning, take away this decision/choice.
If you aren't yet in a position to be sure that they don't need it - just do it!
That is the safer option.
 

Arfermo 

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On the other hand, I'm coming round to the idea that Beginners actually should be encouraged initially to treat with Apiguard and Oxalic, by rote, whether or not they think their bees need it.
And then having got through the first couple of years without catastrophic losses (or at least any due to varroa), then they can start deciding what they think their bees' situation actually needs. However, at the beginning, take away this decision/choice. If you aren't yet in a position to be sure that they don't need it - just do it! That is the safer option.
:iagree::iagree: No good reason for not doing it during the broodless period if one wants to be sure that the bees will be in best form for the build-up as there will definitely be phoretic mites on the clustered bees ready to multiply asap, as not even autumn thymol is 100%. Sublimation best too.
 

Woodchip 

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Thanks Brian, I will not break the seal between the super and BB. The design of my poly hives makes it impossible to put a super below the BB without permanent modification.

Farbee, I really like the idea of extending a tube from the syringe, sometimes the best ideas are the simplest!

jenkinsbrynmair, thanks for the reassurance about OA and honey contamination. I am not doing this for the honey but will take some when I am more confident I can keep the bees alive!

Erichalfbee, Arfermo, Finman, beeno & itma, I am pretty sure they need to be treated due to the current drop. I am trying to take as little intervention as possible whilst maintaining strong colonies. This is partly as I believe in nature taking its course where possible, but also because a wrong move by me is a bigger threat to the bees than veroa ever will be!

I really appreciate all your good advice, thank you for taking the time.
 

farbee 

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Thanks Brian, I will not break the seal between the super and BB. The design of my poly hives makes it impossible to put a super below the BB without permanent modification.
Farbee, I really like the idea of extending a tube from the syringe, sometimes the best ideas are the simplest!

jenkinsbrynmair, thanks for the reassurance about OA and honey contamination. I am not doing this for the honey but will take some when I am more confident I can keep the bees alive!

Erichalfbee, Arfermo, Finman, beeno & itma, I am pretty sure they need to be treated due to the current drop. I am trying to take as little intervention as possible whilst maintaining strong colonies. This is partly as I believe in nature taking its course where possible, but also because a wrong move by me is a bigger threat to the bees than veroa ever will be!

I really appreciate all your good advice, thank you for taking the time.
If its a pains poly you can use an eke on the hive floor and them the super to get around the notches on the floor. Another simple idea from somebody (ITMA I think) on the forum.
 

Swarm 

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It just adds more space beneath the frames, cut the stupid lugs off, they don't serve any worthwhile purpose.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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Too many - but not nearly enough
On the other hand, I'm coming round to the idea that Beginners actually should be encouraged initially to treat with Apiguard and Oxalic, by rote, whether or not they think their bees need it.
And then having got through the first couple of years without catastrophic losses (or at least any due to varroa), then they can start deciding what they think their bees' situation actually needs.

However, at the beginning, take away this decision/choice.
If you aren't yet in a position to be sure that they don't need it - just do it!
That is the safer option.
:iagree::iagree::iagree:
That's the line I take with our beginners. Let them make their own decisions when they have more experience.
 

Erichalfbee 

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You're all right....above. I didn't spot this was the beginners' section.....just looked at newest posts....silly me.
In my first three years I did just what you suggest, treat by rote

By the way...you don't need an eke under a paynes box. A wooden super fits OK without any modifications
 

farbee 

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You're all right....above. I didn't spot this was the beginners' section.....just looked at newest posts....silly me.
In my first three years I did just what you suggest, treat by rote

By the way...you don't need an eke under a paynes box. A wooden super fits OK without any modifications
Must be getting confused. Why bother cutting the lugs off then?
 

Erichalfbee 

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As above. If you cut the lugs off you can put a paynes shallow on the floor.
A wooden shallow fits like a glove....though
 

jonnybeegood 

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As above. If you cut the lugs off you can put a paynes shallow on the floor.
A wooden shallow fits like a glove....though
Please correct me if i am wrong but does it not kind of defeat the object of using a poly hive if you are going to add wooden Ekes? Are you not going to lose a lot of heat saving properties of the poly through the wood?
 

Erichalfbee 

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Well, you would if you were running brood and a half and had the brood nest in it but my boxes are 14 x 12s and the wooden shallow of uncapped honey was nadired this autumn and the bees promptly moved the stores up into the top box. I don't suppose for a minute there is any brood in it, I fully expect it to be empty so rather than any heat being lost here it will be acting as a baffle between the OMF and the poly box. Most of my supers are cedar. I don't see the need for poly supers though I do have a few to put on to encourage bees onto new foundation.

I might have my thermodynamics all askew though......
 

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