Oxalic 6%, Payn*s in the Arse!

Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum

Help Support Beekeeping & Apiculture Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

waverider

House Bee
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
443
Reaction score
0
Location
Nottinghamshire
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
8
So why do companies like P****s continue to sell 6% Oxalic when from reading forum threads a concentration of 3.2% - 3.4% should be applied?

Have i just wasted my money purchasing this?

:confused:
 
So why do companies like P****s continue to sell 6% Oxalic when from reading forum threads a concentration of 3.2% - 3.4% should be applied?

Have i just wasted my money purchasing this?

:confused:

Its probably been made in Italy where the acid conc. recommendation is 6%.
I would double the volume by adding 1L to 1Kg sugar solution to make it a 3% solution. There's no real difference in efficacy IIRC frm what I've read.
 
I had considered dilution however I had read some threads discouraging this! Like you said the efficacy of the solution is not going to be substantially compromised.

Yes it is the Italian solution.
 
I get the impression that most "thinking" users of oxalic are beginning to temper their solutions to lower concentrations anyway, with no noticable loss of varroa kill.
 
I get the impression that most "thinking" users of oxalic are beginning to temper their solutions to lower concentrations anyway, with no noticable loss of varroa kill.


here we are...


and the Europen Varroa GrOUP MADE VAIN WORK 10 YEARS because the British 2-hive owner knows best.

First he said that Oxalic acid is agaist the law, and when he starts to use it after 10 years, then it is surely against the recipe


Oh my .... Good heavens these guys.....again,again and again....

Thinking users.....yes....

How many years I have explained that follow the recipe. Don't invent your own because it is based on nothing.
 
Erm interesting I did notice mine from p***s had 6% on - I brought it from them as I didnt want to mess about, if its good enough for the Italian's does it really need watering down?
 
6% oxalic acid

Hi
Interesting dialogue! 6% oxalic will damage your bees - trust me! The Swiss perfected the 3.5% solution after proving that the initial Italian pioneering work with 10% solution -although OK for the Med countries was too strong for bees in Northern Europe.
The formulae under might make life a bit easier in the diluion process!

Acid solutions:



Starting with A% acid solution, to make 100 mls of B% formic acid solution take



100B/A mls of original solution and add 100{1-B/A} mls water.



For example, starting from 85% solution, to make 100 mls of 70% solution:

Take 100´70/85 = 82 mls of 85% solution and add 18 mls water.



Starting from 90% solution, to make 100 mls of 65% solution:

Take 100´65/90 = 72 mls of 90% solution and add 28 mls water.
 
.
I remember that sugar content is not 50% but it is 30%?

Sugar content noticed to be important because it gues the acid on bees' surface.
Bees rub that dirty away and spread it over body.

.
 
.
I think that Italian company has an official selling licence to the 6% stuff.

Some companies do not sell "medicine". They sell something "vital" but oxalic acid is the main component in stuff.

Swish use the weakest solution. Canada uses the same after long "thinking".
 
This has been discussed many time and Im sure it has some thing to do with how it calculated. Dihydrate or Anhydrous this make the solution sold by paynnes 4.2%. This is just what I have read on here other forums and on the rest of the net.
 
This has been discussed many time and Im sure it has some thing to do with how it calculated. Dihydrate or Anhydrous this make the solution sold by paynnes 4.2%. This is just what I have read on here other forums and on the rest of the net.

Now you mention it - its ringing bells in my ears too
 
Last edited:
.
Italian professor Antonio Nanetti invented oxalic acid tricklin 1997.
1998 started European Varroa Group. An UK member was nominated into group buthe did notarrived.
Other 6 countries worked years. They tried different solutions and calculated dead rate of mites.
About 2006 the work was ready.

Like Ireland, some countries were not carefull. They delivered old knowledge about trickling.

Oxalic acidand own digital balanceisvery cheap. Thatis why beekeepingcompanies did not accepted the results. They said that it is not "accepted" like the law says.

Companies want to make good business. Like Canada, itaccepted the stuff just now. USA has not accepted even if in Denmark 100% of beekeepers have used it 10 years.

DEFRA delivered clear information to beekeepers as soon as the research group gove results.

But somehow the issue has spreaded like Mr Smith's wine bottles along supermarket's floors.
 
Beware, the percentage quoted in various texts and on bottles is not always calculated the same way.

There are two factors that make a difference. One is percentage by weight or volume. If a percentage is quoted in most research papers it is a percentage by weight, sometimes abbreviated w/w. There is an older (obsolete) way of percentage by volume where you take x grams of substance and make it up to 100 ml. Percentage by volume is what is on the Endolapi SRL (Italian) labels. It makes only a small difference for oxalic acid, a larger difference for sugar. The second factor is whether the original weight was the hydrate version. When crystals form there is often some water in the crystal structure, that should be included in the calculation but it's not on the Italian labels and it makes a larger difference.

Endolapi SRL (the Italian company) produce oxalic solutions in three concentrations, those are the bottles with "l'Enologia e l'Apicultura" at the top (Winemaking and Beekeeping that the company supplies products for). The label concentration is 6% (yellow), 4.5% ('New Zealand formula' pale blue) and 3% (white). How they calculate the percentage is clearly stated on the bottles but it's not the percentage as it is used in scientific papers, for example http://www.apimondia.com/apiacta/articles/2003/nanetti.pdf The bottles are also clearly labelled as in 30% sugar solution, that's below the usually recommended sugar concentration but it may keep longer.

The 4.5% Oxalic on the Endolapi label is actually close to the 3.2% usually recommend for the UK when calculated by weight of the anhydrous oxalic acid. Th0rnes, for instance sell their own 'Trickle' product at the same 3.2% calculated as anhydrous by weight. The Endolapi 6% labelled is actually about 4.2% by weight and the stronger concentration commonly used in Italy. The 3% labelled is around 2.1% by weight and used by some in Scandinavia.

Why do the Italians label it like that? Why do P4aynes and others sell the higher concentrations and not make the distinction clear? You'd have to ask them. Confusing? Yes, and it's why for most scientific purposes concentrations are quoted in molarity. Harder to work out initially, but unambiguous.
 
Last edited:
:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


Beware, the percentage quoted in various texts and on bottles is not always calculated the same way.

There are two factors that make a difference. One is percentage by weight or volume. If a percentage is quoted in most research papers it is a percentage by weight, sometimes abbreviated w/w. There is an older (obsolete) way of percentage by volume where you take x grams of substance and make it up to 100 ml. Percentage by volume is what is on the Endolapi SRL (Italian) labels. It makes only a small difference for oxalic acid, a larger difference for sugar. The second factor is whether the original weight was the hydrate version. When crystals form there is often some water in the crystal structure, that should be included in the calculation but it's not on the Italian labels and it makes a larger difference.

Endolapi SRL (the Italian company) produce oxalic in three concentrations, those are the bottles with "l'Enologia e l'Apicultura" at the top (Winemaking and Beekeeping that the company supplies products for). The label concentration is 6% (yellow), 4.5% ('New Zealand formula' pale blue) and 3% (white). How they calculate the percentage is clearly stated on the bottles but it's not the percentage as it is used in scientific papers, for example http://www.apimondia.com/apiacta/articles/2003/nanetti.pdf The bottles are also clearly labelled as in 30% sugar solution, that's below the usually recommended sugar concentration but it may keep longer.

The 4.5% Oxalic on the label is actually close to the 3.2% usually recommend for the UK when calculated by weight of the anhydrous oxalic acid. The 6% labelled is actually about 4.2% by weight and the stronger concentration commonly used in Italy. The 3% labelled is around 2.1% by weight and used by some in Scandinavia.

Why do the Italians label it like that? Why do P4aynes and others sell the higher concentrations and not make the distinction clear? You'd have to ask them. Confusing? Yes, and it's why for most scientific purposes concentrations are quoted in molarity. Harder to work out initially, but unambiguous.
 
Back
Top