Overwintering on brood and a half

[donaldb7340]

I am about to extract my supers and leave my hive (on brood and a half) to prep for winter. The question is- will the bees be ok to overwinter on brood and a half?

 

[richardbees]

Donald

We need to know your Hive type....

but I use Nationals and always winter on the BB only

Richard

 

[derekm]

Thermally there is no difference provided the colony can get just as close to the crown board.

 

[bobandbec]

I use nationals and overwinter on brood and half, sometimes with a super over (QE removed).
Make sure they are treated, have sufficient stores and are strong with good young, healthy Winter bees.
I dribble oxalic in the depths of Winter.
Peter

 

[Polyanwood]

Richard is right. What size brood boxes are you on? Sometimes a standard national box might not be big enough, but a jumbo langstroth is always plenty big enough.

 

[Finman]

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First thing is, that the colony must be quite big that it beeds 1.5 boxes.

If hives has 5-7 boxes ín summer, it perhaps needs, but if iot has only 4 boxes, it surely need not.

The bee cluster is same size as the last brood cycle before winter feeding.
If frood frames are 8, one box is enough, It frames are 12, it needs second box.

Of course you may put brood and half, but it may have vain space and bees do better in a smaller room.

Our first rule in wintering is to reduce hive space to minimum.
It makes that interrior is warm and it keeps the hive dry.
If there much space, condensation happens inside the hive more or less.

It is better that dew point is out of hive.

.

 

[Finman]

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Amount of brood in September rules how much frames the colony needs for wintering.

If insulation is poor, and ventilation too high, colony may use 100% more food during winter.

In USA they give even 60 kg honey to bees over winter = the whole yield.
Our hives consume normally 20-25 kg sugar.

Big story how to do it.

A small colony in unreduced space really suffer from cold. It must eate really much to keep itself warm.

 

[drstitson]

realistically for safe overwintering the bees need the equivalent of Brood and a half (or for one box use - one 14x12 or LS/dadant deep). with stores like that no midwinter/early feed needed.

better to be on one box format though (ie 14x12) as no gap between tiers for bees to get caught out by.

 

[oliver90owner]

Here is the simple and correct answer to what you have not thought about.

If you are National or WBC and has been on a single brood all season it is highly unlikely to need brood and a half now or any time this year.

Replace your queen excluder and leave as normal for the time being. If they fill another super (quite possible) you can then decide on whether to over-winter on a bfood or a brood and super. You do not need brood and a half at all. End of answer and no more discussion on that question needed.

RAB

 

[Swarm]

I am about to extract my supers and leave my hive (on brood and a half) to prep for winter. The question is- will the bees be ok to overwinter on brood and a half?

Looking at a table of data for 2012-2013 Winter losses, the answer is not quite that simple. There is insignificant evidence to suggest one format over another (or even between treated and not treated)

20kg of stores is generally considered the norm but even this is no guarantee, as seen by last Winters losses.

 

[Tom Bick]

I am about to extract my supers and leave my hive (on brood and a half) to prep for winter. The question is- will the bees be ok to overwinter on brood and a half?

I read the op’s question that he has run his hive as brood and a half and would say if you have run your hive as brood and a half then keep it as that

I have standard nationals and in the past have overwintered them fine but for the last couple of years when possible have overwintered them on double brood, way bigger than needed but they seem to thrive, loads of pollen loads of stores and no blocking of laying space for the queen especially at this time of year.

This year I am going into the winter with more bees on single nationals than previous and have decided to give them a part filled super under the BB. This super come the spring may be partly full of pollen and even some brood but I will be happy to deal with it.

 

[enrico]

I run all my brood and a half with the half at the bottom anyway!

 

[Finman]

)

20kg of stores is generally considered the norm but even this is no guarantee, as seen by last Winters losses.

That is a amount what you can feed into one box. Number comes from that.

- but guys are giving emergency feeding allredy in November. They do not understand the idea at all. They feed bees like piggs.

.

 

[Finman]

I run all my brood and a half with the half at the bottom anyway!

I run one , if bees all go inside before I set up the hive for winter feeding.

I see from experience too, do I must give 2 brood. Often I shake them into one, It is it too tight, I give another.

There is no idea to give extra room to bees. That is only harmfull.

But you have there no winter-. You have only 6 months autumn. In Helsinki we have 9 months autumn.

In spring it is a big advantage to build up ift hive has very tight setup.

.

 

[Finman]

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Too much frames for winter, too much winter food and then in spring you are in trouples with sugar frames

 

[Tom Bick]

I run all my brood and a half with the half at the bottom anyway!

That has to be the right way to do brood and a half enrico and I bet you hardly ever look at the super the same as I hardly ever look into the bottom brood of my double brood hives as all the action takes place in the top box most of the time. But I see plenty of people with the super on the top requiring inspection of both boxes.

 

[oliver90owner]

C'mon, boys and girls. Brood and a half is not brood and super. There is a subtle difference that most seem to overlook, not understand, or simply haven't a clue.

 

[Finman]

C'mon, boys and girls. Brood and a half is not brood and super. There is a subtle difference that most seem to overlook, not understand, or simply haven't a clue.

You are so mad with your boxes and excluders.

Many here use 3 half boxes during winter. 3 x half = 2 langstroths.

Question is about space what you leave for winter. It is sama what it is.
If 5 frames is good, then use dummy board.

Simply: too much space is not good idea. But if you are "do nothing type", then do as you like.

´Meanwhile you write carbage on forum, you may take all extra roo away and hives are in codition.

But now, you have no hurry to do that in UK. Summer continues.

have your apples allredy rippen?
.
.

 

[enrico]

C'mon, boys and girls. Brood and a half is not brood and super. There is a subtle difference that most seem to overlook, not understand, or simply haven't a clue.

Ok......why? Enlighten me please! I'm not too proud to say I haven't a clue what you mean!
E

 

[Swarm]

Just that brood and half is brood as opposed to brood and 'honey' super.