Overwintered Super

[Do224]

My bees had part filled a super by the end of last season. Rightly or wrongly I fed syrup in the autumn above the super (qx now removed). So going into winter the super would have been full of syrup (they also had fondant to go at over winter)

Now I’m wondering how/if I should sort this out. I did consider just making sure the queen was in the BB, putting a queen excluder on and leaving them to it. But presumably this seasons honey crop in the super would then be contaminated with syrup.

Is there a way to solve this? Nadir the super and let the bees move any syrup/fondant stores up?

Or is there nothing to be done and I just have to accept that this super’s honey will be contaminated with syrup this year?

 

[Wilco]

Is there any brood in the shallow?

If yes, I ensure the queen is in BB (if that means move her or shake the bees down frame by frame then I do), QE on then shallow. Once brood hatched, nadir it with QE between it and BB. Best done before drone rearing commences.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

nadir it with QE between it and BB. Best done before drone rearing commences.

what will that achieve at this time of year? you will still have loads of sugar syrup kicking around in the hive and as soon as a super goes on, bang! the sugar will be up there.
there are a few options:
If no brood in the super, just clear the bees out, take it off and nadir it back on at the end of the season before you start overfeeding again
If there is brood in there, but still loads of stores, put the queen down in the brood box and put a QX over it, replace the super but take out the frames with sugar and replace with clean frames, wait for the brood to emerge and leave them backfill with honey.

 

[Wilco]

what will that achieve at this time of year? you will still have loads of sugar syrup kicking around in the hive and as soon as a super goes on, bang! the sugar will be up there.
there are a few options:
If no brood in the super, just clear the bees out, take it off and nadir it back on at the end of the season before you start overfeeding again
If there is brood in there, but still loads of stores, put the queen down in the brood box and put a QX over it, replace the super but take out the frames with sugar and replace with clean frames, wait for the brood to emerge and leave them backfill with honey.

Long range forecast is slightly lower temps and wet up North for April. Suspect that, with an expanding brood nest, means they'll probably consume those stores. Your suggestions are a safer option though.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Long range forecast is slightly lower temps and wet up North for April. Suspect that, with an expanding brood nest, means they'll probably consume those stores

could well do so, I would not nadir it at this time of the year though, just leave as is and monitor space then if it still needs more room and still has loads of sugar stores left, then remove.

 

[Wilco]

could well do so, I would not nadir it at this time of the year though, just leave as is and monitor space then if it still needs more room and still has loads of sugar stores left, then remove.

I'll go with your greater experience.

 

[Do224]

Thanks, it’s a difficult one for me to judge. I expect they’re over fed but I’m not sure. I’ve been out of the country for a couple of months and just have someone checking on fondant levels for me (they’ve used about 1.7 kg fondant since autumn).

I’m back home for a couple of weeks in April so just trying to work out the best plan of action….I’ll be away again through May and June. The same person will keep an eye on them for me again while I’m away but they’re a complete beginner (although they’re booked onto a course in Spring and they have the promise of help when needed from a more experienced chap).

Definitely not an ideal situation and I wasn’t aware I would be away so much when I took on bees last year. That said, I’m loathed to give them up now so just trying to make the best of it….

I did wonder about leaving them on brood and a half as it might delay swarm preps a bit but trying to keep it as simple as possible for the person who’ll be looking after them for me.

 

[rolande]

I did wonder about leaving them on brood and a half as it might delay swarm preps a bit but trying to keep it as simple as possible for the person who’ll be looking after them for me.

Why not, sounds like a reasonable kind of plan.

Another twist which might not suit with your projected absence is to overwinter with brood and half and then split the super off as a nuc. Works very well which is all that actually matters.

 

[Do224]

Why not, sounds like a reasonable kind of plan.

Another twist which might not suit with your projected absence is to overwinter with brood and half and then split the super off as a nuc. Works very well which is all that actually matters.

Brood and a half can be a bit intimidating for a beginner to inspect, that’s all…

I hadn’t thought of splitting the shallow off as a nuc. How would you go about doing that…literally just pull the top box off and let the bees make queen cells in it? Then destroy all but one cell and leave them to it? Not sure how you would then proceed as all the frames would be super frames…

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

literally just pull the top box off and let the bees make queen cells in it? Then destroy all but one cell and leave them to it? Not sure how you would then proceed as all the frames would be super frames

It's what is known in the beekeeping trade as a total abortion (a bit like brood and a half really)

 

[Monbees]

It's what is known in the beekeeping trade as a total abortion (a bit like brood and a half really)

Lay off the continual 'total abortion' all the time, it's boring. Some of us on here like brood and a half and get on fine with it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Lay off the continual 'total abortion' all the time

why? I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone else if you're that offended by it - do us both a favour and put me on ignore

 

[Erichalfbee]

Not sure how you would then proceed as all the frames would be super frames…

They would become the half of the “brood and a half” to be.

 

[Do224]

They would become the half of the “brood and a half” to be.

So you’d just add an empty brood box underneath?

 

[Curly green finger's]

Lay off the continual 'total abortion' all the time, it's boring. Some of us on here like brood and a half and get on fine with it.

First super always goes on a single brood without a QX untill later in the season colony then becomes brood/half, with doubles I use them straight away( qxs)

 

[drdrday]

Is there a way to solve this? Nadir the super and let the bees move any syrup/fondant stores up?

You could spin out the frames and keep the 'honey' just for feeding back to the bees.

I overwinter my bees on double brood (lots of room for stores going into winter) so when I do my first inspection, if there are stll too many frames of stores left in there I'll pull them out and replace with drawn comb or foundation giving more space for the queen to lay up. As I don't have the room to store all of these frames of stores in a freezer and I don't want to risk the waxmoth getting to them, I spin them out and keep this as 'bee feed'. It's kept solely for feeding bees (when making up nucs or feeding before winter) so that it doesn't matter that it might contain sugar syrup or thymol. It means I have to put in a bit of effort extracting the 'honey', but I find it much more convenient to store a tub of 'bee feed' and use make use of the empty frames back in the hive than to try and store brood frames full of stores

 

[Do224]

You could spin out the frames and keep the 'honey' just for feeding back to the bees.

I overwinter my bees on double brood (lots of room for stores going into winter) so when I do my first inspection, if there are stll too many frames of stores left in there I'll pull them out and replace with drawn comb or foundation giving more space for the queen to lay up. As I don't have the room to store all of these frames of stores in a freezer and I don't want to risk the waxmoth getting to them, I spin them out and keep this as 'bee feed'. It's kept solely for feeding bees (when making up nucs or feeding before winter) so that it doesn't matter that it might contain sugar syrup or thymol. It means I have to put in a bit of effort extracting the 'honey', but I find it much more convenient to store a tub of 'bee feed' and use make use of the empty frames back in the hive than to try and store brood frames full of stores

Makes sense. I don’t have a spinner though…

 

[rolande]

Brood and a half can be a bit intimidating for a beginner to inspect, that’s all…

I hadn’t thought of splitting the shallow off as a nuc. How would you go about doing that…literally just pull the top box off and let the bees make queen cells in it? Then destroy all but one cell and leave them to it? Not sure how you would then proceed as all the frames would be super frames…

I can't see anything intimidating about a double box brood area personally; even beginners should be managing the bees not the woodenware.

Regards walk away splits, I've been quite scathing about them on here in the past, pretty much stand by that. Not saying they can't result in good queens sometimes but they cost a lot of time always. Add a ripe cell, add a queen are other options.

What do you do with it once the queens laying?
-Take the Queen and use her elsewhere.

-Build them up, add a deep above and continue building up so that the nest moves up away from the shallow.

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Also, another option, make up 3, 4 or 5 frame shallow mating nucs and split the original super into them then reunite at end of season and add above another colony for winter. Options everywhere.

Really don't see the issues that a lot of others encounter with different depth boxes.

 

[Do224]

What do you do with it once the queens laying?

-Build them up, add a deep above and continue building up so that the nest moves up away from the shallow.

I like this idea...sounds reasonably simple. Presume it would only work much later in the year (late May/early June?).

I only have one colony so nowhere to pinch queen cells from…and I’d rather not start buying and trying to introduce queens at this stage.

 

[drdrday]

Makes sense. I don’t have a spinner though…

That would certainly be a difficulty with my suggestion then!