Over or under...

Beekeeping Forum

Help Support Beekeeping Forum:

Heather 

Queen Bee
Joined
Dec 7, 2008
Messages
4,104
Reaction score
93
Location
Newick, East Sussex
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
15
Typical beekeepers- When adding a new super some say put new super on top of near capped supers as bees work upwards, others say put on top of QE and under the near filled comb.
I think under as it relieves congestion and bees are not walking all over near capped and capped to reach new - what is the opinion of the experts out there??
 

victor meldrew 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
6,617
Reaction score
170
Location
Wigan
Hive Type
14x12
Number of Hives
6
Typical beekeepers- When adding a new super some say put new super on top of near capped supers as bees work upwards, others say put on top of QE and under the near filled comb.
I think under as it relieves congestion and bees are not walking all over near capped and capped to reach new - what is the opinion of the experts out there??
If you have thin unwired foundation between wired frames and you place new super above , you are likely to get traffic tracks all over the cappings thus spoiling the appearance of your cut comb honey !!

John Wilkinson
 

Cazza 

Queen Bee
Joined
Feb 28, 2010
Messages
2,519
Reaction score
0
Location
Suffolk/Norfolk border
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
5 ish
Under or Over?

I'm an "under" because of the space/congestion idea. If I'm in a hurry it's over but it doesn't seem to matter much. "under" makes removal for extraction slightly quicker.

Cazza
 

winmag270 

House Bee
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
382
Reaction score
0
Location
lichfield, staffs
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
not saying anymore in case SWMBO reads this... ;o)
I was always told "under" as the bees work down from the top....
 

Finman 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
25,902
Reaction score
377
Location
Finland, Helsinki
Hive Type
langstroth
.
Bees instict is to rippen nectar and move the honey to upmost.
They fill the center of frame first, but rippen honey they store from top to down.

One box capped honey needs 2 more box to nectar rippening.

When you put a new box over the brood area, it means that there are empty combs and lots of work to do. It affects hive's swarming fever.

If you take all brood over the excluder, and give an empty brood to lay, it is one of swarming preventing methods.


If the hive is cold, bees take honey from cold corners and move stuff towards the hive centre.
 

Poly Hive 

Queen Bee
Joined
Dec 4, 2008
Messages
13,653
Reaction score
6
Location
Scottish Borders
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
9 and 18 Nucs
Space above the brood nest stimulates nectar collection so under.

PH
 

oliver90owner 

Queen Bee
Joined
Jul 15, 2009
Messages
15,747
Reaction score
165
Location
Lincolnshire
Hive Type
14x12
Simply observe how a natural nest in a vertical cavity would develop, or not, as the case may be. Top down - always. The bees will always build from the roof and add comb for brooding at the bottom. They always store their honey directly above the brood nest. They would not start comb at the bottom and build upwards.

Look at Warre-type hive operation. Bees are left to build downwards with extra space added, under the brood nest, either all initially or as the hive fills with stores. Doesn't make a bit of difference when the space is added. Imagine a choice of them moving down into space or going back to some space, say a metre above the nest. No contest if the choice is there.

Now the beekeeper is wanting a product, often which is not in brooded frames, so the super space is always put in above the brood. Not quite the natural way to do it but closest to natural (await the TBH-only crews comments here!) is putting the new space nearest the bottom. It will have the advantage, on occasions, of getting the bees to draw the comb better because they are traversing the empty frames to complete the cappings above, so getting their scent all over it, so as to speak, rather than them ignoring space, right at the top, in favour of filling the broodbox as the main flow diminishes.

So, most comments in above posts are pertinent. In a large flow and only a couple supers it may not make much difference but if, say, there were 4 supers on, that 'new' space does not want to be at the top!

So fairly simple answer, when one thinks about the extremes (adjacent or a metre above the current brood).

Regards, RAB
 

Mike a 

Drone Bee
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
1,789
Reaction score
0
Location
Hampshire
Hive Type
langstroth
Number of Hives
Between 17-20
(await the TBH-only crews comments here!)
Regards, RAB
TBH - other than the normal arc of honey at the top of each comb as per brood frames the excess is stored towards the back of the hive or either side of the brood nest area depending how the TBH is set up to start with. Although there is no reason why a super cant be used on a TBH if the owner wishes to modify a few bars to give access above the bars.

Tony Herberts version of a TBH with national super


To see this hive in a short movie by its creator click here.
 

thurrock bees 

Drone Bee
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
1,084
Reaction score
0
Location
Haywards Heath, Sussex
Hive Type
national
Number of Hives
27
i was told on my course, under the other supers, reason... the bees wont know that they have a extension above, but they will know as the bees above in the old/full super travel down the see it.Its always worked for me. And as said above bees start at the top and work down as they have been doing for millions of years.

hope that helps

TB
 

Finman 

Queen Bee
Joined
Nov 8, 2008
Messages
25,902
Reaction score
377
Location
Finland, Helsinki
Hive Type
langstroth
i And as said above bees start at the top and work down as they have been doing for millions of years.

hope that helps

TB
But nursing bees and get the honey the biggest problem is to avoid swarming. Swarming is natural habit and the main reason why bees work for.

Bees swarm when hive is full. That is a sign. When bees feel that they hive is not full at all, they conntinue foraging and storing.

The beekeepers must cheat them to continue their work.
You take rippen honey off from top and add empty box under nertar box. So boxes will be filled in order an you do that so much as beed continue foraging.


The hives bring now 3 times more honey than 50 years ago. The reason is the breeding. Colonies are 3-times bigger because they do not swarm.
.
 
Top