Options for combining colonies

[Do224]

I’m considering combining a couple of small swarms. From what I gather my options are;

1. Put the two brood boxes together with a sheet of newspaper between. Let bees chew through and the queens fight it out.

2. Air freshener method. Not entirely sure how this works so if someone could elaborate that would be much appreciated.

3. Squash one of the queens and shake the rest of the colony out in front of the other hive. Let them find their own way in.

Are all decent options or am I off the mark? Thanks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

if they're fresh swarms, just dump the lot together and let them sort themselves out

 

[Do224]

if they're fresh swarms, just dump the lot together and let them sort themselves out

How fresh is fresh? I’m waiting on equipment. They’re in Nucs at the minute...if I do combine it will probably be in a couple of weeks

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

then you'll need to reduce to one queen and unite either using paper or air freshener

 

[oliver90owner]

As they are likely both with virgin queens, the far better route would be to wait until you can compare the two colonies (queens) before choosing which queen to dispence with. Two queens will likely lay more brood than one at this time of the year. You might otherwise kill off a docile queen and raise a colony with vile behaviour traits. You might get a poor laying queen instead of a good productive one. You could have wasted a chance of a choice - one of those queens may not get mated. Do think of all the options/alternatives.

A proper unite is always far better than shaking out - there being no good reason for the latter course - unless you can think of even one.

 

[IndiBee]

I always give the swarms a good chance to prove themslves. When a swarm turns out to be queenless or I SUSPECT one is queenless, I put one above the other for a week with a screen between. This gives me the option to instantly combine if one proves to be queenless a week later.

 

[Do224]

Thanks all. I’ll leave them be until both queens start laying and decide then.

How come a shake out is generally considered a last resort...is it just because it’s messy and you’ll lose some bees? Just interested to know.

 

[Jonnyl]

if they're fresh swarms, just dump the lot together and let them sort themselves out

Hi JBM, I did that exact same thing earlier this month into a 14x12 with drawn comb and the next afternoon they absconded, every single one of them, in the biggest swarm I've ever seen. What did I do wrong? Was going to ask at the time but my embarrassment stopped me.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hi JBM, I did that exact same thing earlier this month into a 14x12 with drawn comb and the next afternoon they absconded, every single one of them, in the biggest swarm I've ever seen. What did I do wrong? Was going to ask at the time but my embarrassment stopped me.

It's the luck of swarms, sometimes they just decide they want to move on, it may be they had decided on a new home before they were dumped in a box then put into a hive, so once they settled they went back to plan A. Some people 'advise' to stop them going by putting a queen excluder over the entrance. I just take the chance.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

"..is it just because it’s messy and you’ll lose some bees?" That's a fairly good reason not to do it!
Unless thre are other reasons, you can wait until you see the temperament of the resultant bees once the queens mate and their brood has emerged and more or less takes over the colony. Then unite with the better queen and you have a strong colony for winter. No shaking required.

 

[drdrday]

How come a shake out is generally considered a last resort...is it just because it’s messy and you’ll lose some bees? Just interested to know.

I've not had to 'shake out' bees yet, but I think I'd always take another option first unless it was absolutely necessary. I can only imagine how many confused bees you'd have flying in the air if you shook out a whole hive (or in this case nuc) - that alone is reason enough to avoid it for me, but also add the fact that you have no control over where they go.
So much easier to just put the bees, in a box wherever you want them to go. Newspaper unites are really quick and easy, and air freshener even quicker as you don't 'have to go back in to rearrange boxes/frames afterwards.

I'd either combine swarms as soon as possible - which you've already said you wouldn't be able to do as you don't have the equipment yet- or if you have to wait, take the opportunity it gives you to assess the quality of the queens and their laying first so that you can make a more informed decision over which one to keep in your combined colony.

 

[enrico]

Just done an air freshener combine with a swarm and a queen less hive.
Squirt the air freshener across the top of all the boxes, not into the boxes as you put them together. I then give a final squirt in the entrance. As I say, just done it and no fighting despite the queen less hive being strong and stroppy!
It is so easy and no failures yet

 

[Markthebuilder]

Which brand extension of air fresh do you use

 

[enrico]

Which brand extension of air fresh do you use

Glade warm vanilla!

 

[user 20297]

Which brand extension of air fresh do you use

Glade warm vanilla!

You could try this.....
https://lindsaylucascandles.co.uk/product/honey-air-freshener-room-spray/