optimal forage theory

[beecology]

Hi folks,

Im sure most of you will be familiar with the OFT, especially as the honeybee waggle dance is one of the ultimate examples.

As energy expenditure is key to the OFT, shorter trips to forage should be selected if:

Profitable forage is close by

Less profitable or equally profitable forage is further away

Better forage is available further away but the energy expenditure involved means less favourable forage closer to the hive is more profitable.

With this in mind, from the brief observations Ive made, my bees are selecting forage further afield, despite the bramble just coming into flower within 10 metres of the hive.

I haven't found the source of the forage away from the hive, and so I was wondering if you can read the approximate location by the way bees exit.

The bees seems to be flying high and southwest direction, so if I walked far enough southwest, could I find the forage they are on?

Opinions gratefully received (bar those offered by bitter self obsessed idiot)

 

[Edwardking]

It sounds logical, but consider first that it may be a long walk. If you do undertake the walk do report back here to tell us how you got on. Good luck!

 

[Teemore]

Except in times of dearth, it is very unusual for me to see any of my bees foraging within perhaps 30 meters of their hives. This seems to tie in with articles about foraging (and foraging distances) which I read when I did my beginners course.

Search bee lining for a bit of info on tracking the forage sources.

 

[beecology]

Hi Teemore (and edwardking),

Thanks for your replies.

I was also told about bees not foraging within close or immediate range of the hives but that is at odds with OFT.....unless there are overriding behaviours that could explain this, maybe as away of avoiding attention to the hive/leading potential predators or parasites/robbers?

Any thoughts?

This is of particular interest as I have created/sown a wildflower meadow and although primarily for wider species benefits, I do hope the honeybees also benefit. Time will tell as the meadow will not be fully established until next season and following years.

I will certainly look up bee lining....thanks for the tip

 

[Ben90]

Try taking a compass bearing of the flight paths and then correlate that with any potential forage sources you find in Google Earth. A lot of universities studying bees use similar methods, but using an observation hive to observe waggle dances is a more reliable method as you get a more accurate reading and an approximate distance.

 

[sipa]

Bees have the ability to select pollen based upon the protein needs of the colony. So they may ignore some closer obvious sources in favour of more distant sources if the need to optimise arises.

Also when making bee bread they will take different stored pollens and blend together to optimise the amino acid (Protein) profile of the bee bread.

This is one reason why having access to multiple pollen sources is so important to honey bees survival.

 

[beeno]

Hi beecology - go for it. Look at the pollen colours they bring back as that will give you a clue as to what you may be looking for. My bees are very active in my garden on spring forage, when it is too cold to fly high a longer distance, on Scilla and Spanish Blue Bells. Also on my Prunus, Wisteria, apple.

 

[alldigging]

Chris Nowak on facebook posted on 20 May at 10:44 this picture of pollens

From left :Carniolans, Primorski, Buckfast. Pollen from yesterday (19.5.14) from 3 different hives.

In the comments he says about bees having different tongue lengths which would affect the pollen types they can collect.

 

[einsteinagogo]

Hi folks,

Im sure most of you will be familiar with the OFT, especially as the honeybee waggle dance is one of the ultimate examples.

As energy expenditure is key to the OFT, shorter trips to forage should be selected if:

Profitable forage is close by

Less profitable or equally profitable forage is further away

Better forage is available further away but the energy expenditure involved means less favourable forage closer to the hive is more profitable.

With this in mind, from the brief observations Ive made, my bees are selecting forage further afield, despite the bramble just coming into flower within 10 metres of the hive.

I haven't found the source of the forage away from the hive, and so I was wondering if you can read the approximate location by the way bees exit.

The bees seems to be flying high and southwest direction, so if I walked far enough southwest, could I find the forage they are on?

Opinions gratefully received (bar those offered by bitter self obsessed idiot)

my basic understanding, was how long the waggle dance is, is how far the forage is, and was it 1 second = 1 km ?

and the direction, from 0 degrees, is the compass heading.

So, if you walked far enough in that direction, you should find the forage!

 

[Pete D]

At my home apiary the bees are currently working 2 fields of beans about 800m away, they head out and return from that direction straight across whatever terrain is between the hives and fields, mostly open farmland, couple of dykes. Later in the summer the change direction almost 180 degrees and head to a large Raspberry plantation, again straight there and back.

At the wildflower farm its a different story, my hives are against a hedgerow, very close to a corner wher 3 hedges meet. These are about 8ft high and the farm has these all across it and block planting of the various flowers. Here the bees use the hedge as a runway / road / route and no matter where they have been they always seem to come back along the hedge tops.
Quite a sight when its about to rain.
Next year I am going to turn the hives to face the hedge as I always inspect from the back.

At my hives in town the bees only have one route due to hedges and trees but do use the garden path as a flight line, but at height.

 

[beecology]

At my home apiary the bees are currently working 2 fields of beans about 800m away, they head out and return from that direction straight across whatever terrain is between the hives and fields, mostly open farmland, couple of dykes. Later in the summer the change direction almost 180 degrees and head to a large Raspberry plantation, again straight there and back.

At the wildflower farm its a different story, my hives are against a hedgerow, very close to a corner wher 3 hedges meet. These are about 8ft high and the farm has these all across it and block planting of the various flowers. Here the bees use the hedge as a runway / road / route and no matter where they have been they always seem to come back along the hedge tops.
Quite a sight when its about to rain.
Next year I am going to turn the hives to face the hedge as I always inspect from the back.

At my hives in town the bees only have one route due to hedges and trees but do use the garden path as a flight line, but at height.

Pete, would the wildflower farm be ermosgate? If so, your bees may very well have helped produce the seeds I have sown for the wildflower meadow...

 

[Pete D]

Pete, would the wildflower farm be ermosgate? If so, your bees may very well have helped produce the seeds I have sown for the wildflower meadow...

Yes thats them, very wildlife and nature friendly company.

http://wildseed.co.uk/

 

[beecology]

Yes thats them, very wildlife and nature friendly company.

http://wildseed.co.uk/

When the meadow flowers properly next season, I will post a picture for you to show your bees what they have accomplished. That's made my day that a fellow beek has benefitted from bees foraging on there wildflower crops, which in turn has benefitted my local wildlife (and my bees!).

 

[Ben90]

my basic understanding, was how long the waggle dance is, is how far the forage is, and was it 1 second = 1 km ?

1 second to 1 km is only a very rough approximation. Unfortunately bees don't run by our SI/metric system.

 

[Tdf]

Hi folks,

Im sure most of you will be familiar with the OFT, especially as the honeybee waggle dance is one of the ultimate examples.

As energy expenditure is key to the OFT, shorter trips to forage should be selected if:

Profitable forage is close by

Less profitable or equally profitable forage is further away

Better forage is available further away but the energy expenditure involved means less favourable forage closer to the hive is more profitable.

With this in mind, from the brief observations Ive made, my bees are selecting forage further afield, despite the bramble just coming into flower within 10 metres of the hive.

I haven't found the source of the forage away from the hive, and so I was wondering if you can read the approximate location by the way bees exit.

The bees seems to be flying high and southwest direction, so if I walked far enough southwest, could I find the forage they are on?

Opinions gratefully received (bar those offered by bitter self obsessed idiot)

They could be on the brambles close to the hives, but 10m is a very small area so they would definitely have to go further afield anyway. Its also possible brambles aren't yielding yet even though flowers out and also possible not enough out to get bees attention

 

[beecology]

Well the reverse lining worked to some extent, I observed three different flight routes (there were more but I followed the most obvious ones).

The closest hotspot was approx. 75 metres due west and surprisingly the bees were ignoring everything else to forage on a dense stand of opium poppies - filling pollen baskets with dark purple/grey pollen.

The furthest hotspot was a patch of late flowering OSR 150 metres due east.

The southwest flight line was the most noticeable and they were on greater celandine and bramble in a hedgerow.

Will see if it works with the lime trees 1km away.

Thanks for your replies

 

[beecology]

Just to refresh this and pose another question to the board...

I've now mapped the local area in terms of forage and it seems the most prolific areas are bramble (former railway sidings - both located approximately 900 metres due south and due west). There is also a large area of POS that has grassland rich in white clover, this site is approximately 650 metres southwest.

So, my question is, do these distances (900+ and 650+ metres) provide close enough forage for the bees?

I know bees forage further than this, but I wonder if such distances are prohibitive in terms of honey harvest and general bee welfare.

Opinions welcomed

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My bees either leave the hive and head South (depending on time of year - willow, bramble willowherb or or HB occasionally fly twenty ards then head West (same forage, but also gardens) and occasionally go straight up, over the trees to gardens and heather.
But whatever the direction of forage is the still seem to find time for a quick detour to sh!t all over my jeep whilst leaving SWMBO's car next to it alone

 

[Finman]

Just to refresh this and pose another question to the board...



So, my question is, do these distances (900+ and 650+ metres) provide close enough forage for the bees?

I know bees forage further than this, but I wonder if such distances are prohibitive in terms of honey harvest and general bee welfare.

Opinions welcomed

...Knowledge is better than opinions, because this has been researshed quite much.

There is no rule how bees forage. It depends how much they have good bee flowers around their hives.

Then how many hives forage at same area. 5 or 20 or even 50.

Hot Spot is not biological research thinking. It is better to talk about averge.

Best beeflowers are often worst weeds. They grow everywhere , and they are not in collection of "wild flowers".

Interesting are the reseaches of Austaralians, when they have looked, how far bees forage on vast canola field. Bees go to nearest flowers and they do not understand that they woud get faster the nectar load if they go further.

In normal pastures bees forage on average 2 km nectar, and pollen too.

My opinion is that when in UK average hobby beekeepers yield is 15 kg/ hive, there are lack of good pastures there and too much hives per area. London is the worst yield area and it tells that it has too much bees. In these condition bees must fly quite far to search flowers.

My opinion and knowledge is that if the bees can forage under radius 1 km, yield is sometimes superior, if there are good nectar flowers like fireweed or raspberry. My hives have got maximum yields 120 kg/hive in 3 weeks, what fireflower blooms. At same time on another place same size of hive has got -15 kg, because pastures were dry sand.

In good years hives can get 40-60 kg honey/hive from vast canola field. It is less than from fireweed because nectar droplet is very tiny in Brassica.

If bees must harvest canola field over 1-1,5 km, the yield will be -50% compared the hives which stand on canola field.
But canola is sensitive to dryness. Even 50 hectares canola gives a poor yield if weathers are windy and soil is dry. 25C and wind is too much to canola.

I keep only 1-3 hives at same spot. Then bees can harvest with minimum distance.
It is same with canola. When blooming is over after 2 weeks, hive must get yield from other flowers and they must be near too.

I harvest 60-80 kg average yields, and it is not easy to find such pasture every year.

 

[madasafish]

The nearest HB in volume is 800 meters away as the bee flies. Only 1/3rd of my bees - roughly - appear to travel to it when it's in flower (not yet) - the rest go elsewhere.

There is zero arable land within a 5 mile radius - but lots of woods and rough land and gardens incl N Trust.