Open Mesh Floors

[the naked beekeeper]

Who uses them?

Are they really 'better' than solid, closed floors in all year round use? (Mite monitoring aside.)..do they help the bees, or are they a hinderance?

 

[Poly Hive]

They came in to the UK via poly hives in the early 80's.

B. Mobus did research at Craibstone and found that with over head insulation bees wintered drier and the survival rate seemed to improve.

Now it is pretty much mainstream to couple the two together.

Hope this helps?

PH

 

[user 6228]

I currently use them but am about to stop.

1) They fix the bottom of the hive cavity at outside ambient temperature.
arguably a non issue for wooden hives as the inside surfaces dont get much above outside ambient

2) They negate the effect of entrance fanning bythe bees effectively a short circuit to outside

 

[user 6228]

They came in to the UK via poly hives in the early 80's.

B. Mobus did research at Craibstone and found that with over head insulation bees wintered drier and the survival rate seemed to improve.

Now it is pretty much mainstream to couple the two together.

Hope this helps?

PH

Was that research in wooden hive with uninsulated sides?

 

[Poly Hive]

Does your honey ripen properly derekm?

PH

 

[user 6228]

Does your honey ripen properly derekm?

PH

The broodbox stores in the one without an OMF but with 12 off 300mm x 3mm x 50mm slots yes.
small colony didnt get to having a super last year.

I can see where you are coming from on that but the complication is the warmer the air the more water vapour it can carry and that difference is considerable. So after the bee mess around with every variable in every equation... where it gets to I will find out this summer

 

[Black Comb]

Well I've never used anything else.
Main benefit is that when varrroa drop they can not crawl back up into hive and die instead. Or that's what I was told.

 

[the naked beekeeper]

They came in to the UK via poly hives in the early 80's.

B. Mobus did research at Craibstone and found that with over head insulation bees wintered drier and the survival rate seemed to improve.

Now it is pretty much mainstream to couple the two together.

Hope this helps?

PH

Interesting.

Was the research done on poly and timber units?

The polys obviously have an advantage in that they've already got overhead insulation.

I presume with a timber hive, you'd have to add an eke and then add insulation inbetween the CB and roof, unless you had a deep roof.


The reason I ask is because I am unsure of them.

It doesn't seem natural to have that much ventilation.

Coupled with top insulation does help, I understand.

One of my timber hives recently I peaked inside and it had mould and slugs all around the sides of the chamber, floor and crownboard!!!

I am soon to change my apiary location as currently, it is not the best (bottom of a valley and on the edge of a copse.)

However I wonder, is the dampness due to not having adequate ventilation (that an OMF would provide), because they didn't get enough Winter sun, or a combination of the two?

I am sure an OMF would stop the above event happening, but at what cost to the bees?
Is the best way to add OMF to all timber units and top insulate them?

Surely not everyone gets damp problems in wooden, closed floor hives?

 

[Black Comb]

Lat winter (2010/11) was the worst for a long time.
We had 2 long periods of snow on ground and very low temps.
All my colonies survived just fine with OMF's left open the whole time.

 

[Poly Hive]

The research was done on timber units as the polys were pretty much self proving.

I remember seeing the floors as I went through the stuff there at Craibstone, and it began with two 2" holes at the rear, then that became a rectangular panel, and then full on OMF as we now call them BUT this was always coupled with 2" or more dense insulation as it is not a great success without the top insulation.

PH

 

[itma]

... The reason I ask is because I am unsure of {OMFs}.

It doesn't seem natural to have that much ventilation.
...


Surely not everyone gets damp problems in wooden, closed floor hives?

The bees don't seem to mind the ventilation. It doesn't seem to be draughty inside the hive.
Although the natural ventilation should mean much less need for fanning at the entrance, regardless of its effectiveness.


The more closed up a wooden hive, the more condensation you'll get. Which is where the old advice about matchsticks came from. Better to have the hive vented, and so dry even though cold, than to have it closed up and damp.
OMF + insulation should give a dryer and a warmer home for the bees.

 

[Poly Hive]

FWIW I think of a natural tree cavity, warm above and cool below the combs. Assuming the entrance is lower of course.

PH

 

[nemphlar]

Dampness was always an issue with solid floors, hence the 2 matchsticks under rear of the crown board, even this was limited in success and position didn't make much difference. I've never had a problem with damp since moving to OMF a few years ago. I think the insulation from floor up must the best it can, and I am looking at more poly types.

 

[REDWOOD]

My hives have OMF no vents in the roof wintered with no inspection board all OK. When you say it is not natural to have a open bottom how open is a hollow tree trunk, it could be 20 feet deep.

 

[user 6228]

FWIW I think of a natural tree cavity, warm above and cool below the combs. Assuming the entrance is lower of course.

PH

Exactly my thoughts which is why i've built a model of tree cavity and im trying to measure temps and air movement, to see how much it differs from popular hive designs and my own.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Exactly my thoughts which is why i've built a model of tree cavity and im trying to measure temps and air movement, to see how much it differs from popular hive designs and my own.

When will you be putting some bees in that tube you made Derek.

 

[user 6228]

When will you be putting some bees in that tube you made Derek.

there some in it now but they are made of plastic... SWBO's joke on me

 

[Hivemaker.]

there some in it now but they are made of plastic...

Surely they will not give you an accurate reading, unless they are heated individually in some way,and given some form of movement and fanning ect.

 

[user 6228]

Surely they will not give you an accurate reading, unless they are heated individually in some way,and given some form of movement and fanning ect.

very funny ... the heater for the measurements is a 10w resistor havent perfeected remote control bees .... yet

 

[Hivemaker.]

very funny ... the heater for the measurements is a 10w resistor havent perfeected remote control bees .... yet

Is that like a bulb?