oh dear

[Tim1606]

I disagree with your definition of 'responsible'. Swarming is a natural phenomenon, I have yet to see a swarm chasing an old lady or child down the street (entertaining though that would be). If her colonies routinely swarm it suggests that they are not weakened by disease but are in fact probably strong and healthy. It is also a good way of obtaining a new queen and engages with natural selection, which the evidence from Africa suggests is the only way we will ever develop varroa resistant bees. I think, if she is not farming honey,that this is a very responsible approach.

I can't comment on her bees starving over winter. I'm sure you think that feeding them fondant is a good idea, but when you do this you step away from natural selection. British bees have a very low requirement for calories over winter, hybridised bees need much more. Maybe her bees dying off are actually your responsibility for filling the skies with drones from these Spanish hybrids. You do this for their productivity, maybe she simply wants resilient British bees.

The same applies for bee diseases. Routinely inspecting and filling colonies with medicated candy and varroa treatments is farming, but don't go thinking you are doing the bees (as a species) any favours.

Having said that the choices I make are similar to yours, but I do this knowing that I am not contributing to bee species health or survivability in this country and that people like this lady are probably contributing a lot more than I ever will, whether she knows it or not.

/flame on

What a load of old drivel.

Swarms can carry diseases such as EFB and AFB and it is so called beekeepers like you that spread the disease.

Have never used medicated candy and don't know anyone else who does so don't know where you get that crap from.

 

[Swarm]

I think ITMA is suggesting one shouldn't ask a lady's age.

And there's me just about to ask if she was fit.

 

[beehive1234]

What a load of old drivel.

Swarms can carry diseases such as EFB and AFB and it is so called beekeepers like you that spread the disease.

Have never used medicated candy and don't know anyone else who does so don't know where you get that crap from.

Obviously TIM you are not a 'natural selection' Darwinian type of guy, just making a good living from robbing bees.

 

[Pete D]

I disagree with your definition of 'responsible'. Swarming is a natural phenomenon, I have yet to see a swarm chasing an old lady or child down the street (entertaining though that would be). If her colonies routinely swarm it suggests that they are not weakened by disease but are in fact probably strong and healthy. It is also a good way of obtaining a new queen and engages with natural selection, which the evidence from Africa suggests is the only way we will ever develop varroa resistant bees. I think, if she is not farming honey,that this is a very responsible approach.

I can't comment on her bees starving over winter. I'm sure you think that feeding them fondant is a good idea, but when you do this you step away from natural selection. British bees have a very low requirement for calories over winter, hybridised bees need much more. Maybe her bees dying off are actually your responsibility for filling the skies with drones from these Spanish hybrids. You do this for their productivity, maybe she simply wants resilient British bees.

The same applies for bee diseases. Routinely inspecting and filling colonies with medicated candy and varroa treatments is farming, but don't go thinking you are doing the bees (as a species) any favours.

Having said that the choices I make are similar to yours, but I do this knowing that I am not contributing to bee species health or survivability in this country and that people like this lady are probably contributing a lot more than I ever will, whether she knows it or not.

/flame on

Yes I got the idea it would be my fault her bees die out, how irresponsible of me.
I don't think I mentioned swarms chasing people down there road, but as mentioned previously an old lady up the road from this excellent beekeeper had a swarm take up residence in her compost bin and she was quite alarmed by it.
Like you say she is doing a great job and I best leave her to it.
Thanks for the advice and comments, most helpful and educational. All I need to do now is let 85% of my stocks die out and I too will earn the responsible beekeeper tag.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Good, because I am thinking of reporting you to AGE CONCERN. This lady might be suffering from the beginnings of Alzheimer, I think you should ask her next of kin if you should interfere with her [/B]

Oh dear! - you haven't have you Pete - been rummaging around in her box without permissionb!

I disagree with your definition of 'responsible'. Swarming is a natural phenomenon, . If her colonies routinely swarm it suggests that they are not weakened by disease but are in fact probably strong and healthy. It is also a good way of obtaining a new queen and engages with natural selection, I think, if she is not farming honey,that this is a very responsible approach.

British bees have a very low requirement for calories over winter, hybridised bees need much more. Maybe her bees dying off are actually your responsibility for filling the skies with drones from these Spanish hybrids. You do this for their productivity, maybe she simply wants resilient British bees.

The same applies for bee diseases. Routinely inspecting and filling colonies with medicated candy and varroa treatments is farming, but don't go thinking you are doing the bees (as a species) any favours.

Having said that the choices I make are similar to yours, but I do this knowing that I am not contributing to bee species health or survivability in this country

Obviously TIM you are not a 'natural selection' Darwinian type of guy, just making a good living from robbing bees.

Eh?

What a load of old drivel.

I think I must have stepped into the twilight zone judging by the last couple of pages!

Well, at least we know spring is upon us (a few cuckoos calling on here anyway!)

 

[Tawny Owl]

Swarms can carry diseases such as EFB and AFB and it is so called beekeepers like you that spread the disease.

Well it was a dull Sunday afternoon so I had to wind everyone up.

However the first part of this sentence shows you don't really understand bee colony fission, or the role of beekepers in the spread of the foul broods eg adult bees from wild colonies in areas without beekeeping rarely contain detectable spore levels, whereas swarms in areas with beekeeping often are contaminated by AFB spores (Hornitzky et al., 1996).

The second half of the sentence shows you haven't read the bit about how I manage my colonies.

 

[Chris B]

Obviously TIM you are not a 'natural selection' Darwinian type of guy

I doubt many of us here are.

Cost of 'natural selection' would be majority of colonies sacrificed annually, and most beekeepers would experience a regular wipeout. Not a sound footing for either a business or an enjoyable hobby.

This lady is kidding herself. She would have few swarms to repopulate her deadouts without other beekeepers keeping a sizeable population going. She is doing nothing to benefit the gene pool. And keeping 6 colonies in close proximity IS going to spread any disease quicker than truly wild colonies that live much greater distances apart. Norfolk is a bit of an EFB hotspot too so she is already living with increased risk, and without inspecting, a small problem can become a big problem very quickly. EFB is still (rightly or wrongly) a notifiable disease and we all have a responsibility to have a reasonable handle on the health status of our bees. Even one brood inspection a year should be sufficient to find most EFB cases before they get out of hand.

 

[Tawny Owl]

I doubt many of us here are.

Cost of 'natural selection' would be majority of colonies sacrificed annually, and most beekeepers would experience a regular wipeout. Not a sound footing for either a business or an enjoyable hobby.

This lady is kidding herself. She would have few swarms to repopulate her deadouts without other beekeepers keeping a sizeable population going. She is doing nothing to benefit the gene pool. And keeping 6 colonies in close proximity IS going to spread any disease quicker than truly wild colonies that live much greater distances apart. Norfolk is a bit of an EFB hotspot too so she is already living with increased risk, and without inspecting, a small problem can become a big problem very quickly. EFB is still (rightly or wrongly) a notifiable disease and we all have a responsibility to have a reasonable handle on the health status of our bees. Even one brood inspection a year should be sufficient to find most EFB cases before they get out of hand.

Well I agree with that.

It is the wider 'my way is right' that I was debating. In not the most articulate way.

 

[Chris B]

or the role of beekepers in the spread of the foul broods eg adult bees from wild colonies in areas without beekeeping rarely contain detectable spore levels, whereas swarms in areas with beekeeping often are contaminated by AFB spores (Hornitzky et al., 1996).

I'd be interested to read that. Have you got a link? I can only find something by Fries.
I would be interested to compare results to the random apiary survey conducted here a few years ago where bee samples tested in the lab showed AFB to be very rare, in line with what inspectors find on their normal routine disease checks.

 

[madasafish]

I love to read this stuff about bee breeding for resistance to varroa. No doubt those who write about it have 15 years of experience, carefully selected colonies and impeccable records of hive mortalities etc.

 

[alldigging]

I disagree with your definition of 'responsible'. Swarming is a natural phenomenon, I have yet to see a swarm chasing an old lady or child down the street (entertaining though that would be).

It may be natural but for people who already don't like bees it would not make them like bees more.

 

[mbc]

It may be natural but for people who already don't like bees it would not make them like bees more.

There was a time when most people in the country would walk by beehives every day going about their daily business, I would suggest this was healthier than the present disengagement or apartheid us bee folk suffer when with our stock.
Free the bees!

 

[BeeJayBee]

Swarming is a natural phenomenon, I have yet to see a swarm chasing an old lady or child down the street (entertaining though that would be).

Maybe you haven't seen any news videos of people surrounded by bees, and cowering in shops?

 

[Samurailord]

Attaching those yellow ear tags is going to be tricky though.

Not as tricky as vaccinating them one by one would be

 

[Hivemaker.]

I love to read this stuff about bee breeding for resistance to varroa. No doubt those who write about it have 15 years of experience, carefully selected colonies and impeccable records of hive mortalities etc.

Juhani writes quite a lot about his resistant breeding program, from treating to stopping altogether, and all the ups downs along the way.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/lunden/varroakertomus.html

 

[madasafish]

Juhani writes quite a lot about his resistant breeding program, from treating to stopping altogether, and all the ups downs along the way.

http://www.saunalahti.fi/lunden/varroakertomus.html

Thanks for the links..
I note: for 2009/10 winter:

40% winter losses
30% of the overwintered hives did not develop in spring and summer
30% of the overwintered hives developed normally and produced a good honey crop

Hmm... not exactly a great success yet - more Work in Progress?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

So to all intents and purposes - 70% colony failure

Nice!

 

[mbc]

Thanks for the links..
I note: for 2009/10 winter:

40% winter losses
30% of the overwintered hives did not develop in spring and summer
30% of the overwintered hives developed normally and produced a good honey crop

Hmm... not exactly a great success yet - more Work in Progress?

A very interesting project and documented in an upfront, warts and all kind of way that doesn't deserve derision because of honesty about the failures.
The most damming thing to my mind is the evidence pointing to the bees able to cope with varroa going towards smaller, less productive colonies.
Anyway, hats off and many thanks to Juhani, he writes some interesting posts on the treatment free section of beesource.
All work with breeding is necessarily a work in progress, nothing stands still.

 

[madasafish]

A very interesting project and documented in an upfront, warts and all kind of way that doesn't deserve derision because of honesty about the failures.
The most damming thing to my mind is the evidence pointing to the bees able to cope with varroa going towards smaller, less productive colonies.
Anyway, hats off and many thanks to Juhani, he writes some interesting posts on the treatment free section of beesource.
All work with breeding is necessarily a work in progress, nothing stands still.

I am not deriding it. I like honesty about failure. I just wish that certain high profile beekeepers were as honest. But then they are likely to have fewer avid followers..

My experiences of newbies starting with TBHs is they start with enthusiasm, no practical experience and an aversion to joining any association due to the gospel preached that frames are evil... and then lose all their bees over winter.

I stopped supplying TBH nucs to TBH newbies in 2013 for that very reason...

 

[mbc]

Yes, treatment free and horizontal tbh's only lead to a grizzly death to bees in my experience.