Nucleus Method - not in BBKA book

[Jules59]

I went to the BBKA Spring Convention yesterday, for the first time, and attended an interesting lecture on swarm prevention and control. The speaker extolled the virtues of using the Nucleus method and said it is now the only method of swarm control that they use in their apiaries.
Its the method I use for my WBC hives.
I also happened to look in the "The BBKA guide to Beekeeping" 2nd Ed, 2022 and as far as I could see the Nucleus Method doesnt even get a mention; it only refers to Pagden, Demaree, Snelgrove and variations of the these.
I would have thought it should have been included.
Any reason it should have been omitted ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Is there logic in anything connected to the BBKA?

 

[Newbeeneil]

I went to the BBKA Spring Convention yesterday, for the first time, and attended an interesting lecture on swarm prevention and control. The speaker extolled the virtues of using the Nucleus method and said it is now the only method of swarm control that they use in their apiaries.
Its the method I use for my WBC hives.
I also happened to look in the "The BBKA guide to Beekeeping" 2nd Ed, 2022 and as far as I could see the Nucleus Method doesnt even get a mention; it only refers to Pagden, Demaree, Snelgrove and variations of the these.
I would have thought it should have been included.
Any reason it should have been omitted ?

It’s the only method I’ve ever used, simple and effective.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Same here
I might try Pete Little’s variation this year

 

[Michael Palmer]

Same here
I might try Pete Little’s variation this year

What is Pete's variation?

 

[Roger.Wilco]

What is Pete's variation?

A quick google provided these links (might be correct - might be incorrect?):
https://thewalrusandthehoneybee.com/swarm-control-by-the-experts/
https://thewalrusandthehoneybee.com/the-voice-of-peter-little-exmoor-bees/

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

It's a method used by commercial beefarmers, so will never be endorsed by bbka.

A case in point, a facebook post was put out about the "local" honey being popular at the breakfast table, but the jar shown is from Cheshire.
The last time I looked at a map Harper Adams is well & truly in Shropshire & we have colonies within spitting distance, but I'm commercial and would probably never be asked to supply.

Pete was a legend & I so miss the three hour phone conversations that kept me on the correct path.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A quick google provided these links (might be correct - might be incorrect?):
https://thewalrusandthehoneybee.com/swarm-control-by-the-experts/

That's the one.....thanks Roger. The only thing different I will do is to keep the nuc at the home apiary and re unite it with the parent colony rather than cage the queen and put her in. Like lots of people here if I'm n to careful I end up increasing my stock beyond my capabilities. This way I hope to keep the numbers static going into flow time.
The best laid plans....as they say....though!

 

[Erichalfbee]

Pete was a legend & I so miss the three hour phone conversations that kept me on the correct path

My first bought in queen was a Buckie from Pete in 2008. I had to order her by phone at 11pm. I didn't get off the phone till 12.30. I didn't know what hit me!

 

[Anduril]

I do Peter Little's nuc method on defensive colonies. It makes it easier to find the queen, in order to replace her, I've also used the German method mentioned for defensive hives, it just depends on the equipment I have to hand, I very rarely euthanise a colony. There are other methods I've used if I have run out of equipment, but only for the brave.

 

[Moobee]

I went to the BBKA Spring Convention yesterday, for the first time, and attended an interesting lecture on swarm prevention and control. The speaker extolled the virtues of using the Nucleus method and said it is now the only method of swarm control that they use in their apiaries.
Its the method I use for my WBC hives.
I also happened to look in the "The BBKA guide to Beekeeping" 2nd Ed, 2022 and as far as I could see the Nucleus Method doesnt even get a mention; it only refers to Pagden, Demaree, Snelgrove and variations of the these.
I would have thought it should have been included.
Any reason it should have been omitted ?

Its the least complicated and have always found it to work really well.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

My first bought in queen was a Buckie from Pete in 2008. I had to order her by phone at 11pm. I didn't get off the phone till 12.30. I didn't know what hit me!

I remember a member of our association phoning me once, he was convinced a hive was queenless (I tried to explain to him that in our area we often witnessed brood breaks at the end of the season) no supplier had any queens left - did I have any contacts. I gave him Pete's phone number. I saw Jack in a meeting a few weeks later and asked him if he got a queen. Apparently Pete had plenty, but after being on the phone with him for an hour or more, he'd persuaded him not to buy one - and now his queen was laying again!!

 

[Jules59]

I love this forum - always something new to find...
https://thewalrusandthehoneybee.com/swarm-control-by-the-experts/

thanks

 

[jeff33]

All works well until you miss a 2nd queen cell in the original colony and they all bugger off with the first virgin

I also mostly use the nuc method and wasn't aware of Pete's variation which I will look at. If they have made any attempt to swarm though I won't use this line and will give cell from a non swarming colony to the original one and requeen the nuc after a little while.

 

[JohnRB]

I went to the same lecture and, to be fair, they did start by saying that the reason they weren't including the nucleus method was because they had already covered it in a talk the previous day and that this was intended as an intermediate class, which covered alternative methods for those who were interested. The title of the talk was 'Swarm control beyond the nucleus method' which is a bit of a clue. They did say that the nucleus method is their favourite and, as far as I can recall, at no time did they say you shouldn't use it.

Looking through the mentioned book, on page 127 under the title 'Method 2' it describes (although not in great detail) what looks to me like the Nucleus method.

 

[Ely]

My first bought in queen was a Buckie from Pete in 2008. I had to order her by phone at 11pm. I didn't get off the phone till 12.30. I didn't know what hit me!

Same. 'Give me a call. The later the better'. Great chats about bees

 

[Jules59]

I went to the same lecture and, to be fair, they did start by saying that the reason they weren't including the nucleus method was because they had already covered it in a talk the previous day and that this was intended as an intermediate class, which covered alternative methods for those who were interested. The title of the talk was 'Swarm control beyond the nucleus method' which is a bit of a clue. They did say that the nucleus method is their favourite and, as far as I can recall, at no time did they say you shouldn't use it.

Looking through the mentioned book, on page 127 under the title 'Method 2' it describes (although not in great detail) what looks to me like the Nucleus method.

That's a different lecture to the one I went to.
I went to "Swarming, Prevention and Control " by Jim Vivian -Griffiths and I was questioning as to why the Nucleus method was not in the BBKA book of beekeeping.

 

[Jules59]

That's a different lecture to the one I went to.
I went to "Swarming, Prevention and Control " by Jim Vian -Griffiths and I was questioning as to why the Nucleus method was not in the BBKA book of beekeeping.

Agreed its given a brief mention under "Method 2". No wonder I couldnt find it. Nor is it in the index.

 

[JohnRB]

That's a different lecture to the one I went to.
I went to "Swarming, Prevention and Control " by Jim Vivian -Griffiths and I was questioning as to why the Nucleus method was not in the BBKA book of beekeeping.

Ah, OK. Many apologies - you must have gone to the one they were referring to as giving the day before. Mine was the same chap - beyond the nucleus method.