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Dorking.Dan 

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Hi everyone. My first colony survived through the winter and have been thriving and coming on in leaps and bounds.
I'm thinking of dividing them and putting the artificial swarm if that's what it's called, onto my allotment site which is around 2.3-3 miles away. Now due to distance is this possible. Also how do i go about doing it? Do i take the queen to the new site or let them make a new one there?
Answers on a postcard......
Dan.
 

oliver90owner 

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It won't matter if the bees return to the old site? As long as there is another hive to accept them? Which is likely if they come with gifts of pollen or nectar. Unlikely to return home anyway, if more than 2.3 miles!

Does it really matter which one? Can you artificially swarm on site? Then you can move whichever you want!

Now, if you want to reinforce the 'new queen' colony (will take time for her to hatch, mate and start laying), you could add more bees at the time of splitting (and moving at that time) and have little risk of them returning to the home base.

Those are just some of the considerations. You have a wide choice and it will be up to you how you feel is best for you.

One thing that comes to mind is that if the new queen were to fail it is easier to transfer eggs/young larvae if the colonies are close together. But, on the other hand, it is unlikely, and by the time you do it the weather should be more conducive.

Just another wobbly. You will not know the temperament of the new queen until proven. Your location might be better to keep a 'known' quantity, or it may be better not to antagonise the other allotment holders. Your choices.

Weigh up all the alternaticves and take your pick. Things are rarely without options and there will probaly be more coming along soon.

These were my first thoughts on the subject. I would advise you to list the pros and cons and see if there are any overriding reasons one way or the other.

Regards, RAB
 

Dorking.Dan 

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Can people but frames with brood of all stages in along with a queen cell and hope for the best?
Or maybe just the latter but with just introducing a bought in queen?
 

oliver90owner 

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You will need some bees with all this?

Post does not make sense. Bought-in queen would not require a queen cell.

'Hoping' for the best is not the best way forward.

But, yes, there are different ways to achieve the same target.

Regards, RAB
 

Mike a 

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Hi Dan

First off, wait until your colony starts to build queen cells before you think about splitting them. If you split them when it suits you and you fail to transfer larvae of the right age range they won't produce a good queen.

I would recommend you ask an experienced local bee keeper for hands on help and also confirm you are able to place them on your allotment first. If your allotment association are any thing like others I've heard about they may protest.

Remember bees are wild animals. You may be happy to manage and keep them but if they are queenless they will be very defensive and will sting for seemingly no reason.

Simple test is when you inspect them would you be happy to only wear shorts and a T-shirt and no gloves?
If your answer is no then you can understand why others would be worried about a hive nearby.
 

Bcrazy 

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Hey Mike a
Simple test is when you inspect them would you be happy to only wear shorts and a T-shirt and no gloves?
QUOTE]

To me that quote you have made is totally irrisponsible, no one in their right mind would try a test out for defensive bees wearing shorts t shirt and no gloves.
Come on there are better ways of explaining the point you wish to put accross.
.
 

Mike a 

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To me that quote you have made is totally irrisponsible, no one in their right mind would try a test out for defensive bees wearing shorts t shirt and no gloves.
Come on there are better ways of explaining the point you wish to put accross.
.
Your right, an experienced bee keeper wouldn't be daft enough to do that.
But new beeks don't know any better.

I would bet good money there is 100's of new urban beeks right now placing hives in their back gardens with no idea, training or understanding of how dangerous bees can be. Call it scaremongering if you want, but I bet more than half of them have never read a bee keeping book or joined an association or even taken a basic bee keeping course but think they can learn it all by joining a beek forum and ask a few questions and think its fine to carry on as they were.

No offence to Dorking.Dan but his first question lead me to believe he isn't very experienced but wanted to split a colony and move it to a new location in a public area. This is exactly the kind of action which can cause serious problems. A hive put under the stresses of not only being moved but newly queenless as well...

I'm sorry if you think I was being unreasonable or as you put it totally irresponsible but I disagree bees are wild animals and will act accordingly if mismanaged or mistreated which is why we wear protective clothing, members of the public or neighbours other allotment holders in this case don't even though they could pass with in a few feet of the hive and not even know its there.
That to me is totally irresponsible bee keeping.
 
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Bcrazy 

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Hi Mike a

Yes perhaps I was a bit OTT in my response. Apologies.
I do take your point regarding New beekeepers because they are fed a load of codswollope by other know it alls. It astounds me when I hear a beekeeper of one years experience telling a new beekeeper how certain techniques should bee carried out yet knowing full well that the experienced one year member does not carry out the manipulations themselves. Also I have been surprised how many take up beekeeping and do not have any books of reference. I just don't understand it.

Also on a final word there is no set standards to aim for well there is but most are content to plod along mind in natural and thumb up back side.
Oh I didn't know that!!!!!

Regards;

I know on this forum a lot of good information is freely given .
 

Mike a 

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No worries BC :cheers2:

No need to apologise to me, I've made more than my fair share of mistakes with my bees because I thought I knew what they were planning.

I'm no expert far from it, but I tend to look at the number of posts of the person asking a question and then read their question several times over, if I feel they are new into bee keeping I try to advise a sensible course of action with regards to their bees and the fact they really need to seek hands on expert local advice before moving hives into public areas and putting other people at unnecessary risk of being stung.

My wife calls my hives " a box of gun powder and fireworks " lovely to see but watch out they can explode when you least expect it. :angelsad2:
 

Poly Hive 

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I had an interesting chat this morning with a rep for a certain plastic construction and he is specialising in encouraging people to have these boxes of uncertainty in their back gardens.

I let him know I thought it unwise. He protested that there is back up available via the phone and forum. How useful when the neighbours are screaming that they have been stung.........

I came away feeling pretty sour I have to say.

PH
 

Roy S 

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I had an interesting chat this morning with a rep for a certain plastic construction and he is specialising in encouraging people to have these boxes of uncertainty in their back gardens.
This wasnt one of the two reps at Stoneleigh by any chance was it?....I hung about next to their stand and listened to some of the advice and comments. I have to say they made it sound very fluffy and people friendly, not to mention simple, I asked what is going to happen when these inexperienced beekeepers have bees start misbehaving in terraced house back gardens, he thought I was overexagerating the risk and as you said PH he said there was backup on the omlet forum and via phone....ho hum.....let the fun commence this year eh?

I want to know how much damage this venture is going to end up doing to our craft to be honest. As my dad says...."It's all going to end in tears before bed time!"
 

Dorking.Dan 

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>

Your right, an experienced bee keeper wouldn't be daft enough to do that.
But new beeks don't know any better.

I would bet good money there is 100's of new urban beeks right now placing hives in their back gardens with no idea, training or understanding of how dangerous bees can be. Call it scaremongering if you want, but I bet more than half of them have never read a bee keeping book or joined an association or even taken a basic bee keeping course but think they can learn it all by joining a beek forum and ask a few questions and think its fine to carry on as they were.

No offence to Dorking.Dan but his first question lead me to believe he isn't very experienced but wanted to split a colony and move it to a new location in a public area. This is exactly the kind of action which can cause serious problems. A hive put under the stresses of not only being moved but newly queenless as well...

I'm sorry if you think I was being unreasonable or as you put it totally irresponsible but I disagree bees are wild animals and will act accordingly if mismanaged or mistreated which is why we wear protective clothing, members of the public or neighbours other allotment holders in this case don't even though they could pass with in a few feet of the hive and not even know its there.
That to me is totally irresponsible bee keeping.
"Thanks" mike for your patronising tones. I am e new beekeeper who a has full membership to the BBKA and i went through the proper channels in regards to putting a hive on my plot. It's people like you that put me off going to my local associations meetings. You are all so quick to say we're doing things wrong but will clam up when it comes to actually handing out help, guidence and advice!

I thought instead of my colony swarm, i could possibly devide them into another hive "Only" when i was comfortable they seemed to be getting ready to swarm. I thought as my queen isn't marked, if i find her put her in the new hive or failing that put frames in with one or two queen cells.
I was stupid enough to assume that somewhere like a forum with a lot more open minded people who are happy to help, would be glad to offer advice and not come down on a newbie like he should know better.
 

Poly Hive 

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Wee bit sensitive hmm?

Clam up when it comes to giving out advice?

Threads: 4,157, Posts: 50,272, Hardly clamming up is it?

To be honest membership of the BBKA counts for not a lot. Attending a course is good, as is going to local association meetings where if you are a bit thicker skinned and can get by the some what amused looks as you ask very basic questions you will find that there is considerable help and advice about.

As already mentioned you will find it easier to make a split by removing some frames with queen cells on them. I would urge you to find a mentor to go through your hive with you, find that queen and clip and mark her. I found all of mine yesterday bar one, and she will be done asap.

Just keep asking and if you have the time do some searching on the forum here and there is a heap of advice for you.

PH
 
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tkwinston4 

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Hey Dorking.Dan take a chill pill. I too am a new beek and admittedly I do feel that the replies from the experienced can seem a little; not sure patronising is the word but curt maybe. I really don't think its intended. Remember they always give a reply even if the question has been asked a hundred times so putting it down in a quick basic way can come across as not being as friendly as one hoped. Us newbee's probably do ask some daft questions sometimes but with our limited experience we probably thought it was a perfectly sensible question to ask. The other thing we don't have is all the correct terminology yet. I get confused sometimes when the experienced speak techy but its something we all have to learn.
So please be calm, dont take it all to heart. The guys on here may come to our rescue one day when we have a real problem. :)
P.S. I also asked the same question about splitting my hive via an artificial swarm.
 

Poly Hive 

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Roy?

Yes it was and when challenged on it he was quite unabashed as there was, as you heard too, lots of help on their forum and on the phone.

UH HUH..... Never seen such a piece of nonsense ever. Never heard so much fluffy rubbish either. They need a severe dose of reality.

They are actively promoting hives in gardens. Fine to a point. But when the neighbours get stung it will be a different matter but I am not going to belabour the issue. Good luck to them but dinna phone me when its gone to pot.

PH
 

Dorking.Dan 

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My appologies, I've been in a bit of dis erray the past few days. I've lost somoene really close to me and i'm not handling it in the best way. My appologies to all.
 

Mike a 

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Hi Dan

I'm sorry you took my second post to heart.

Good luck with your bee keeping.
 
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