No Queen excluder

[LeaBees]

Trying out running a colony without a queen excluder to see if it reduces the chances of swarming etc;
Some questions for those that run colonies without a queen excluder;
Does it end up being basically a brood-and-a-half setup as queen lays in the 1st super ?
Do you wait till late in season when queen laying slows and brood nest drops to main brood box before taking off supers (including the 1st super) ?
Any issues with extracting from back filled super frames that have had brood in?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I run 14x12. Sometimes there’s a little brood in an arc in the middle three frames
Yes
No

 

[LeaBees]

Great, thank you.

 

[TomH]

I run all mine no QX. Depends on how prolific they are, but I find a lot of mine seem to end up around brood and half ish, so the first super is filled with brood. Sometimes they make a bit of a teardrop shape brood nest and will lay a little in the middle few frames of the super above. Easy enough to rearrange and move these frames down though and swap with stores frames.

No issue with honey in brood frames. Even with a QX, most nectar will be past through the brood nest anyway, before it is finally stored in the supers above.

 

[pargyle]

I'm on 14 x 12 ... never use queen excluders - occasionally get a bit of brood in the first super early in the season but once it emerges the cells get cleaned and used for honey storage.

I doubt it makes any difference to swarming giving the queen free rein to enter the supers.

No problem with extraction.

I tend to extract last week in August ... I never bother with a spring crop these days as when I have in the past I've found the fickle weather in spring inevitably meant they ate whatever stores were there and had to be fed.

 

[JamezF]

I doubt it makes any difference to swarming giving the queen free rein to enter the supers.

One could perhaps argue that if the opportunity exists for the brood nest to become very big and bee numbers to increase rapidly then the queen's ability to "spread the love" will be compromised and swarming may result. That maybe doesn't seem any less reasonable a response to the colony doing very well than swarming because of lack of space.

James

 

[Michael Palmer]

I allow my queens an unlimited broodnest. If I don't I select for the least prolific queens. the most prolific are in the trees. I can't address what you are doing with your single broods, because our conditions are so different. But I will say, why would you remove the first super? That's the winter feed and spring expansion room. Seems to me a bad plan.

 

[Martimart]

I'm on 14 x 12 ... never use queen excluders - occasionally get a bit of brood in the first super early in the season but once it emerges the cells get cleaned and used for honey storage.

I doubt it makes any difference to swarming giving the queen free rein to enter the supers.

No problem with extraction.

I tend to extract last week in August ... I never bother with a spring crop these days as when I have in the past I've found the fickle weather in spring inevitably meant they ate whatever stores were there and had to be fed.

I'm on 14x12 also , what are the benefits to you and the girls for running with no QX.

 

[Ian123]

Question should be what are the drawbacks if you don’t have to pay for them in the first place and those cheap plastic 1s really are nasty.

 

[Parsonage Bees]

Have my 6 big colonies without excluders this year and have seen no QCs this year. Not that that proves anything. My lot are not very swarmy.
Standard national BB and supers. Patches of brood up in 2nd, sometimes 3rd super. I harvest by frame, moving to box above a clearing board. Rearranging frames with brood down.
Have mostly drawn super frames so boxes get added to the top.
Problem I have is that you can't extract frames with a patch of brood even if the rest of the frame is capped honey. So I've run out of frames. Too mean to buy some more at full price so, like yesterday, I extracted less than 2 supers just to have spare frames.
Thinking I'll have to put in excluders to let brood emerge and take the last of the summer honey.
I understand wax moth is more of a problem in over-wintering supers that have hatched brood but I've not seen that.
Inspections take longer but not a problem for me.
. . . . Ben

 

[Michael Palmer]

I allow my queens an unlimited broodnest. If I don't, I select for the least prolific queens. The most prolific are in the trees. I can't address what you are doing with your single broods, because our conditions are so different. But I will say, why would you remove the first super? That's the winter feed and spring expansion room. Seems to me a bad plan.

 

[user 20297]

Question should be what are the drawbacks if you don’t have to pay for them in the first place and those cheap plastic 1s really are nasty.

Less nasty, and still cheap; I've framed an excluder with easily available, 8mm stripwood. I stuck it on using my favourite polyurethane sealant. Later today, testing on this modification starts with a colony unite

 

[maddydog]

In my outfit (14*12 broods) I've clearly got a couple of defective QE as each year I have a couple of boomers that chimney the first 2-3 supers with brood during the spring and if I'm lucky I get one super of honey (not enough time to frame shuffle).
Come the summer flow they then backfill 4-5 supers with honey and no swarming.
If my hives were on osr I'd gladly swap brood for honey and gamble on a decent summer. However, they're not and in my experience the spring crop is more assured than summer. Some years I would be facing a colossal feed bill.

 

[Ian123]

Many of us operate with no or few excluders it’s no big deal, I’ll use several broods on big hives. Bottom boxes often get rammed with pollen and top boxes with honey.

 

[Dutchman]

I keep my commercial hives on brood and a half and sometimes let them have the run of the whole hive. But a commercial brood box is plenty big for them to overwinter so towards the end of July when there is no more chance of swarming I push the bees down into the brood box and put on a queen excluder. As the brood in the supers hatches they backfill it with honey and a month later I can extract all my supers and store them away.

 

[Ely]

I keep my commercial hives on brood and a half and sometimes let them have the run of the whole hive. But a commercial brood box is plenty big for them to overwinter so towards the end of July when there is no more chance of swarming I push the bees down into the brood box and put on a queen excluder. As the brood in the supers hatches they backfill it with honey and a month later I can extract all my supers and store them away.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I do something similar. I am just wondering what you do with a Spring crop. Do you leave it to the end and extract all at once to avoid the brooded frames and let them be backfilled? This is what I have done but there is no OSR near me. I am wondering what would be done about Spring OSR. Would that last until August in the hive without crystallising? Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread. I do something similar. I am just wondering what you do with a Spring crop. Do you leave it to the end and extract all at once to avoid the brooded frames and let them be backfilled? This is what I have done but there is no OSR near me. I am wondering what would be done about Spring OSR. Would that last until August in hive without crystallising? Thanks

Wouldn’t you just take out the frames of spring honey? It doesn’t matter if the frames have had brood in them as long as there isn’t any when you extract.

I am wondering what would be done about Spring OSR. Would that last until August in the hive without crystallising?

No. No chance. A lot of beekeepers take osr off before it’s even capped.

 

[drex]

By August OSR will be like concrete. I take it off in one hit when the field starts to go over. Purely my opinion, but brood and a half, at any time, in any configuration, is an abomination

 

[Ely]

I have all deeps. Bottom box was mainly pollen, then brood in the next two,sometimes in the third. The honey was a bit too heavy to be honest in deeps this year, I felt a twinge more than once. I'll be going back to shallows next season before I do permanent damage to my back. The shallow frames won't be interchangeable with the brood frames though. That makes things a little more difficult if not using an excluder. What I would normally do is swap honey frames in the brood boxes with brood frames in the supers until I have full supers of honey and stick a clearer board underneath. I don't really want to go back to using excluders but they will make the Spring crop easier to extract.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have all deeps. Bottom box was mainly pollen, then brood in the next two,sometimes in the third. The honey was a bit too heavy to be honest in deeps this year, I felt a twinge more than once. I'll be going back to shallows next season before I do permanent damage to my back. The shallow frames won't be interchangeable with the brood frames though. That makes things a little more difficult if not using an excluder. What I would normally do is swap honey frames in the brood boxes with brood frames in the supers until I have full supers of honey and stick a clearer board underneath. I don't really want to go back to using excluders but they will make the Spring crop easier to extract.

Have a plastic correx box handy. Decant half the frames into it then you can safely lift the deep