New to commercial beekeeping

[MikeN]

Hi,

I have access to a piece of land, in the Midlands that I am thinking of developing into commercial Apiary. So as I am new to this I was wondering if anyone can answer some of my questions (I only have been keeping bees in the past as a hobby):

-Is there a general acreage to number of hives ratio. I was looking to have something like over 50 hives over time. Can they be all together or do they need to be separated. Also is there a distance they need to be from building and homes.

2- how many working person needs to look after 50 hives.

3 - how frequently do they needed to be visited.

4- do they need to be kept in doors in winter ( from my beekeeping experience I have always kept the hives outside, but I just wanted to check if its same for commercial ventures)

5 - how many centrifuges and extractors do you think I need for 50 hives. Also what do they costs usually? Are these very power hungry in terms of electricity. If so what kind of power requirement I will need. How long will take to extract the honey from 50 hives or more.

6- Do I needs to build a number of buildings/barns to hold the centrifuges and other equipment, do you have any ideas on the size and number.

5- how much honey does a typical commercial hive produce (From my beekeeping experience as a hobby my hive produces like 30-40 pounds, is this same yield for commercial hives).

6 - what is involved in the day to day bee keeping (i.e how is it different from just keeping bees as a hobby)

7- Do I need to plant flowers nearby.

I am sorry for all these questions but I am still a novice and I have no way to answer his questions and I am therefore grateful for any help you can provide, also I am grateful for any book recommendations for commercial beekeeping.

Thank you in advance for all you help.
Mike

 

[drex]

I am all for enthusiasm, but your questions suggest to me that you ask yourself are you ready for such a venture at this time. It might be better to get to know bees and beekeeping a bit better and let the size of your operation expand naturally for some time.
Capital costs to set up 50 hives, with bees, the equipment needed to process etc and the buildings which you will use for various procedures and to store all those bits of equipment and all those boxes overwinter, plus a means of transport would be considerable.
There are several commercial beeks on here who can give you hard facts and figures.
A good book to let you know what you could be in for is ROB Manley's honey farming - although the costs would need a lot of updating.
I too keep bees as a hobby, that is enough to occupy a lot of my time in season, but as a hobby it takes some beating. As Manley says in his book it becomes hard work when you venture into " bee farming"
Sorry if I have dented that enthusiasm. Enjoy your bees

 

[Poly Hive]

MikeN?

I would very seriously suggest you google for your local honey farmers, or contact the BFA and ask them to enable you to contact your local man and spend a few days with him (or her of course) and get an insight into what goes on as from your q's you are at the base of a pretty steep curve.

Been there and went from 14 to 50 in one fell swoop so I know the curve.

PH

 

[dpearce4]

Hi Mike

can you please be honest and tell us what amount of beekeeping you have done. Reading your post it seems very little.

If your a commercial operator you still have to inspect your hives as regularly as you would if you had just 1. that being at least once every 7-10 days to try and stop swarming.

Just having land doesn't mean you could become one, the capital outlay to go from 1 to 50 is massive, prob no change from £10K and that's just hives (inc supers) and then extraction equipment £5k if you want to future proof your operation.

Read Honey by the ton a copy of it here for you to read.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tinc2d0nkyvq8rj/Honey by the ton.pdf?dl=0

it will be a bit of an eye opener for you.

 

[wightbees]

Some ideas for you to consider, diy boxes reduce cost, floors and roofs also. How you increase stock is the real cost, again with a little thought and searching this can be done cheaper also. How quick you want to get to your chosen number is the real question, quicker cost more, slower gives you time to increase from your own bees with out the need to buy tons of them. I'm doing a jump this year but have a decent amount already, just wanting to get there quicker : )

 

[BrianO]

Hi

Have you bees currently, done a Beginners course ?

Your questions suggest you do not have some basic knowledge of Beekeeping, therefore you need to read as suggested above, add to that Honey Farming by Rob Manley.

Wish you the Best in your endeavours but your first port of call should be a couple of months reading up on the subject.

Best Of Luck

Brian.

 

[Chris B]

Mike,
I would not put more than about a dozen hives in an apiary on average. Depends how good the apiary is really. So for 50 hives you need 4 or 5 apiaries, at least a mile apart from each other I would suggest. If you overpopulate the foraging range they will underperform.

 

[birdsandbees]

Mike,
I would not put more than about a dozen hives in an apiary on average. Depends how good the apiary is really. So for 50 hives you need 4 or 5 apiaries, at least a mile apart from each other I would suggest. If you overpopulate the foraging range they will underperform.

That's what I was thinking, I think many people make this mistake, overpopulating Apiary sites as they only have one or two, you have to consider available forage within flying distance over the course of the season and other Apiaries in the area, as I discovered recently when looking for a new site and finding one which I thought had real potential. It was rejected after a quick walk around the area revealed over twenty hives in a neighbouring field.

 

[Poly Hive]

Well it depends eh?

I used to site 30 to 40 hives per apiary. got very good returns too BUT I was in a very non densely populated area.

The classic test (as Manley said) was to site x, then the following year add more and see if the take maintained or dropped. And work on that basis until you find the optimum level.

Obviously it is very much more efficient to work two sites rather than 3 or 4. I also used to move the hives to location, then move a load of supers which were stacked on site ready to be used. Sat them on clearer boards with another one on top as a temp roof and a stone or brick to keep the boards on. Saved a lot of running around to have the kit on site.

Oh and no nothing was ever stolen.

PH

 

[ugcheleuce]

2- how many working person needs to look after 50 hives.

 

[For want of a better word]

That of course is someone who knows what they are about... and is fit and healthy
250 colonies on your own for a less than knowledgeable or bee savvy beginner would be a disaster!

Yeghes da

 

[madasafish]

If you are planning to make money you need a proper business plan.

And if you don't have one, or don't know how to prepare one, then you will likely fail miserably.

 

[Little John]

Re: stocking density - I'm not a honey-farmer, so have no firm views on this, but Emile Warre's figures may be of interest.

Taken from 'Beekeeping for All', 5th Ed., 1923 (so I think it's fair to assume a fair acreage of hay fields within the vicinities of the apiaries).

100 at Méléressart (Somme)
60 at Warél (Somme) - all appear to be housed within one shelter.
100 at Onicourt (Somme)- in two parallel rows.
140 at Martainneville (Somme) - in groups.

60+ at Saint-Symphorien (Indre-et-Loire) - in two parallel rows.

Big numbers, and all static hives.
LJ

 

[tonyofarr]

We are keeping our bees on a commercial basis and have been doing so for three years, however we had 20 years experience prior to this when we made many mistakes. If we were to make these mistakes now we would soon be out of business.

I would never recommend keeping all your stocks in one place. It is unlikely there will be enough forage for them throughout the season. If you were to suffer a serious disease problem you could find your whole stocks destroyed or at least put on standstill.
Many of our apiaries are quite small, just 6 to 8 colonies. We are in an area of traditional pasture with no commercial crops such as rape or field beans. You need to know the sources of nectar in your area.


We already had a lot of equipment but have still invested at least £10,000 in capitol equipment. We also breed our own queens and sell nucs so we have not had the expense of buying in the bees.

We have a barn about which as about 30' X 20' which we use for storage. In the winter this is barely big enough, due to the stacks of supers. We currently have about three supers per hive. This is barely enough. We also have a room attached to the house which we use as a honey room. Both of these are essential to our business, we could not operate without them.

Although you could easily check 50 colonies a week on your own, there are many other activities which have to be taken into account. These include queen rearing, making up nucs, maintaining and building equipment, extracting and bottling the honey and developing a market to sell it. The list goes on and on, and unless you are able and prepared to do all of it your business will not succeed.

It is a complex business to operate requiring a wide range of skills. My wife and I do this together and between us we have most of the skills required.

Of course there are many thing you cannot control. We have just had two very poor summers and our honey production has been about 60% down.

My advice would be to be honest with yourself and prepare a realistic business plan. Like any business it is a risk and may fail. The core of your business will be your beekeeping skills, but to make it really successful you need many other skills.

 

[snelgrove]

I was made redundant prior to Christmas this year, I have kept bees mainly as a hobbyist for over 30 years, I did have 120 colonies back in the late 90s.
After the initial shock of redundancy I decided to try and make my bees keep me. This is not the business for someone who has very little experience in bee management.
Considerable financial outlay is required, and I have gained a good business plan from the DWP. However, at least 100 colonies is required to get some profit I think. Hard work, dedication and a deep wallet are needed.

 

[SDM]

you have to consider available forage within flying distance over the course of the season and other Apiaries in the area, as I discovered recently when looking for a new site and finding one which I thought had real potential. It was rejected after a quick walk around the area revealed over twenty hives in a neighbouring field.

Can you pass that on to the kind person who asked my apiaries land owner how many hives I had and then put 20 of theirs 200m from 12 of mine.

 

[Poly Hive]

That is pretty unforgivable. However did you have a clear understanding with your landowner in place?



PH

 

[For want of a better word]

We are keeping our bees on a commercial basis and have been doing so for three years, however we had 20 years experience prior to this when we made many mistakes. If we were to make these mistakes now we would soon be out of business.

I would never recommend keeping all your stocks in one place. It is unlikely there will be enough forage for them throughout the season. If you were to suffer a serious disease problem you could find your whole stocks destroyed or at least put on standstill.
Many of our apiaries are quite small, just 6 to 8 colonies. We are in an area of traditional pasture with no commercial crops such as rape or field beans. You need to know the sources of nectar in your area.


We already had a lot of equipment but have still invested at least £10,000 in capitol equipment. We also breed our own queens and sell nucs so we have not had the expense of buying in the bees.

We have a barn about which as about 30' X 20' which we use for storage. In the winter this is barely big enough, due to the stacks of supers. We currently have about three supers per hive. This is barely enough. We also have a room attached to the house which we use as a honey room. Both of these are essential to our business, we could not operate without them.

Although you could easily check 50 colonies a week on your own, there are many other activities which have to be taken into account. These include queen rearing, making up nucs, maintaining and building equipment, extracting and bottling the honey and developing a market to sell it. The list goes on and on, and unless you are able and prepared to do all of it your business will not succeed.

It is a complex business to operate requiring a wide range of skills. My wife and I do this together and between us we have most of the skills required.

Of course there are many thing you cannot control. We have just had two very poor summers and our honey production has been about 60% down.

My advice would be to be honest with yourself and prepare a realistic business plan. Like any business it is a risk and may fail. The core of your business will be your beekeeping skills, but to make it really successful you need many other skills.

Plus workshop facilities to keep hives and kit in repair and facilities to make new as increase is made.... a very large pollytunnel can be useful for additional winter storage... and in the Summer can be used to produce the veg you will not be able to afford to buy at the supermarket!!!

Then there is the question of what you will do with the honey once in the supers... and once into buckets... how to market it.

Sit down why you calculate the cost of your honey production and how much you will have to charge jo public if you decide to sell it yourself in jars.
Not taking into account the costs of depreciation on your extraction and bottling plant... and the outlay to buy jars labels... food hygiene certification.... clean kitchen... Insurance... Farmers Market charges

Or you could sell in bulk?

My sheep farmer friend says ... you get it easy... you get the Winter off!!

Yeghes da

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I think tony and snelgrove make the ideal points to consider, I myself turned a hobby into a business that up to now has not made a profit for the last five years, Mainly because all monies made are reinvested in equipment which is near the 20,000 grand mark and I now need a newer vehicle. I have a good income from employment which I intend to take voluntary redundancy from to enable expansion to 200 hives. But I still have a fall back as I am a mot tester should it not work out. Another consideration is competition, How many small keepers are in your area who are selling to cover costs?.
I have someone who keeps a few bees but buys in a couple of ton a year and undercuts me. The way fuel is increasing, more bees-more sites=increased cost. The list goes on.

 

[wightbees]

I notice someone selling up north Wales,60 colonies plus equipment 16k though