New to beekeeping looking for cedar hives

[amandaj57]

To play “devils advocate”. I would answer your three questions yes and yes, oh and yes.

Can you provide us with some figures to back that up please.
Seeing that WRC already has to travel further by road than it would in the UK, ignoring the boat altogether, your assertions at the moment seem pie in the sky. I am happy to be proven wrong but without any supporting evidence, I am afraid it seems wishful thinking on your part.

 

[BeeGiner]

Canada to UK by ship @ average 5g/t/km x 5800 = 29,000 g of CO2.
Wales to Lincolnshire @ 80g/t/km x 240 = 19,200 g of CO2.

Nearly forgot the obvious: WRC grows predominantly on the North-West coast of Canada, 5,500km from East coast ports.

Better add on 80g/t/km x 5,500 = 440,000g of CO2 (unless they float the logs down rivers all the way).

To get an idea of comparative transport CO2 per hive depends on the % of timber on board both means of transport. Best guess, anyone?

Sorry Eric,
Your calc assumes a 40 tonne plus truck. From Wales to Lincolnshire it’s more likely to be a

Can you provide us with some figures to back that up please.
Seeing that WRC already has to travel further by road than it would in the UK, ignoring the boat altogether, your assertions at the moment seem pie in the sky. I am happy to be proven wrong but without any supporting evidence, I am afraid it seems wishful thinking on your part.

We know nothing about the production efficiency of Cedar in UK v Canada. I suspect the latter is far more efficient. We know nothing about the environmental transport cost of small scale UK production. We seem to have data that UK cedar is inferior. We know that Cedar is not native to the UK and it seems likely it’s production is detrimental to UK wildlife vis-à-vis native woodland.
Given the complexity, can anyone state that UK product is more environmentally friendly?
Answer “no”. So, I guess quality and price would be the logical drivers of a decision.

 

[WoodenBeam]

Some of you guys & girls really are climbing the walls with lock down / pre season gitters. Strewth get a life

 

[Erichalfbee]

Some of you guys & girls really are climbing the walls with lock down / pre season gitters. Strewth get a life

Try looking at it from my side.......
Won't be long before we will be arguing about swarm control.

 

[amandaj57]

We know nothing about the production efficiency of Cedar in UK v Canada. I suspect the latter is far more efficient. We know nothing about the environmental transport cost of small scale UK production. We seem to have data that UK cedar is inferior. We know that Cedar is not native to the UK and it seems likely it’s production is detrimental to UK wildlife vis-à-vis native woodland.
Given the complexity, can anyone state that UK product is more environmentally friendly?
Answer “no”. So, I guess quality and price would be the logical drivers of a decision.

No, as you have not been able to provide any remotely believable environmental evidence, I think supporting local jobs and the economy will be a logical driver for me.

 

[Boston Bees]

[/QUOTE]
No, as you have not been able to provide any remotely believable environmental evidence, I think supporting local jobs and the economy will be a logical driver for me.
[/QUOTE]

Indeed. For both these reasons, and for environmental ones, it would seem logical to say that if there is a need for a product in this country, and we can make it in this country perfectly well, we should do so rather than relying on others to make it for us.

Which brings us on to this coal mine in Cumbria

 

[Barbie bee]

Better to buy direct from Thorne: Hedgerow Honey may be lovely but an order must go from Thorne in Lincolnshire to HH in Shropshire and back to Claudia in Suffolk, so chucking out more diesel into the sky than necessary.

Unfortunately that’s the way of today’s world. Amazon overpack with plastic, supermarkets sell cellophane wrapped cucumbers, multi packed foods generally have 2 layers of packaging so why not support the little businesses and give them a chance. How do hedgerow honey offset their environmental impact?? Maybe get in touch and find out. Other bee keeping companies do exactly the same for stock it the way of the world

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We know nothing about the production efficiency of Cedar in UK v Canada.

So how can you claim that it is less environmentally damaging to haul timber the length of British Columbia before shipping it 11,000 miles (either that or road hauling it a further 5,000 miles before shipping it 5,000 miles from an East Coast port) when you know nothing of the process?
Clutching at straws just to justify the choice of a more 'fashionable' timber is the only thing I can think of

 

[Murox]

Unfortunately that’s the way of today’s world. Amazon overpack with plastic, supermarkets sell cellophane wrapped cucumbers, multi packed foods generally have 2 layers of packaging so why not support the little businesses and give them a chance. How do hedgerow honey offset their environmental impact?? Maybe get in touch and find out. Other bee keeping companies do exactly the same for stock it the way of the world

I have to confess to helping supermarkets offset their footprints at times, but they don't seem to appreciate it much when I remove all superfluous packaging at the till. Its odd that the local greengrocer doesn't sell cucumbers in plastic, maybe its cheaper for them not to overwrap produce?

 

[philipm]

All the hives I,ve made from Western Red Cedar grown in Pembrokeshire have turned out ok,Pretty sure the carbon foot print would be much lower than from Canada. I've made hoffman frames from Sycamore that grows around the edge of our field once its seasoned it cuts up well and has a close grain ,the bees dont seem to mind.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've made hoffman frames from Sycamore that grows around the edge of our field

oh no!!! another 'invasive' species!!!

https://www.thehazeltree.co.uk/2017/10/06/sycamore-colonist-or-custodian/

 

[philipm]

So much Sycamore ( Sycamorwydden) in Wales that if we felled it all there would be lots of empty spaces everywhere.
Farmers don't like it as its supposed to be deadly to cattle.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Strewth get a life

Well, Zac, that's one way of saying that you don't give a toss about global warming, personal carbon footprint, reliance on imports or local employment.

This discussion is valid 24/7, 365 days a year and it's undeniable that we have an obligation to consider the consequence of our consumption. There may be no alternative when it comes to petrol, and limited ethical choice with say, bananas or cocoa, but it's our contribution to the life of this planet we're discussing, not an aimless bit of banter about wood.

 

[ericbeaumont]

We know nothing
I suspect
We know nothing
We seem to have
it seems likely
I guess

These are not the tools for a constructive discussion and I guess you're having a runaround to hang on to an unstructured and unproven flight of fancy.

You say that From Wales to Lincolnshire it’s more likely to be a
A what? A shorter journey with a reduced carbon footprint giving a job to a Welshman that produces hives that are entirely fit for purpose?

 

[Firefly]

Where can I buy hives made from Pembs WRC? I'm up for that on grounds of sentiment alone

 

[WoodenBeam]

Well, Zac, that's one way of saying that you don't give a toss about global warming, it's our contribution to the life of this planet we're discussing, not an aimless bit of banter about wood.

Strange that
I was under the assumption it was an enquiry about Thornes 2nd’s & any availability in Suffolk on a beekeeping forum.
Must be a parallel universe or something

 

[Erichalfbee]

Strange that
I was under the assumption it was an enquiry about Thornes 2nd’s & any availability in Suffolk on a beekeeping forum.
Must be a parallel universe or something

No. Just no bees to play with....yet

 

[BeeGiner]

So how can you claim that it is less environmentally damaging to haul timber the length of British Columbia before shipping it 11,000 miles (either that or road hauling it a further 5,000 miles before shipping it 5,000 miles from an East Coast port) when you know nothing of the process?
Clutching at straws just to justify the choice of a more 'fashionable' timber is the only thing I can think of

Apart from my previous points about the relative environmental friendliness of sea transport, to get a full picture, you would need to consider production practices in the UK versus its native North America. For example is their any fertiliser applied are their economies of scale in North America etc. I’m sure you don’t have this info and nore do I, so making your decision based on distance equals environmental cost is, at best, deeply flawed.
What we can say, with certainty, is that habitat loss is one of the greatest threats to wildlife (in my opinion far greater than greenhouse gases and global warming). Look around you and see how much natural habitat loss their has been in the UK. Should we be encouraging it by supporting non native forestry?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

A non argument, merely clutching at straws now
clutching at straws

 

[Abelha]

A non argument, merely clutching at straws now
clutching at straws

Hi jenkinsbrynmair. This is an interesting and challenging discussion. With your comment "A non argument, merely clutching at straws now clutching at straws" it appears you are refusing to engage with the complexity of environmental cost. If this is the case then, unfortunately, your comments as worthless.