New publication from RP

[Mint Bee]

Received this in an email from Northern Bee Books. Roger has always advocated his own way of keeping and has been somewhat dismissive of others who did not follow his ways in the past (from personal experience some years ago). With this new publication, I'm hope he is genuinely trying to explore accumulated knowledge and history behind its origins, but wonder if this is a new way of promoting his old agenda? I think that all on this forum would welcome a book on the former as it reflects the ethos of the forum to challenge dogma , but fear it is the latter. Will look out for reviews and be interested if anyone else reads this in the near future. Maybe Father Christmas can bring me a copy in 2 months time?

​ Have you ever met a beekeeper with fixed opinions about a beekeeping topic? Have you questioned what experience and knowledge they are based on? The craft used to be local, traditionally learnt by observing bees, whereas today, we are bombarded with international communications, promotions, soundbites, sensationalism and the like, with the same information, whether reliable or not, appearing in many places. Taking inappropriate advice can mean a dead colony, so we need to occasionally check and challenge what we are told.

​ In a departure from the usual beekeeping book, the author boldly questions some mainstream teaching and dogma. Rather than criticising, he offers possible alternatives which are based on many years of experience and some common sense. This book is a must for all beekeepers, from those new to the craft who may be very proficient and professional in other aspects of their lives but influenced by seeing the same, possibly unreliable, information in several places, to more experienced beekeepers. ho may have seen errors in what they have been told, but blamed the bees rather than what may be poor information.

Not every anecdote, myth or scientific finding can be covered but this book visits a whole range of topics about honey bees, how they behave, the observation and management of colonies, the equipment, pests and diseases a goodly amount on queens and queen cells as well as general beekeeping.

Having read the book and its refreshingly welcome look at fallacies, universal beekeeping "truths" and everything in between, the reader should be encouraged to have a more questioning approach to their beekeeping knowledge growth by seeking new things to learn, reviewing some past assumptions and modifying their management system. As the title says: "Challenge what you are told". Ignore this book at your peril!

 

[user 20297]

"Beekeeping: Challenge what you are told"....just don't do it on this forum.

 

[PeaBee]

"Have you ever met a beekeeper with fixed opinions about a beekeeping topic? Have you questioned what experience and knowledge they are based on." I did sit through a webinar by a certain person that ticked both of these boxes.

 

[Mint Bee]

"Beekeeping: Challenge what you are told"....just don't do it on this forum.

Beebe, as a newish member, you have missed loads of challenges to the existing dogma, particularly that practiced and taught by the BBKA (one of the initial reasons the forum was set up in the first place). What gets short shrift is two year two hive experts preaching, without evidence or knowledge.

 

[pargyle]

Roger has mellowed over the years - he is less dogmatic these days and more open to different ways of keeping bees. He's always been an experimenter so perhaps he has reached some conclusions that he feels able to share. ... I'm not sure I'm up for £25 to find out - but Roger dips in here from time to time so I'd be happy to review a copy if he has a spare one.

 

[Brian Bush]

I have sat through a day of being lectured on what a beekeeper should and should not do.
You should never wear gloves??
no understanding of up to date research into the mating of bees/drone congregation/how queens avoid mating with close relatives.
Rejected questions about in-breeding depression.
Castigated someone who kept Buckfasts.
I could go on. (before you say it I usually do!!!)
I have also experienced the 2 hive 2 seasons experts.
The main thing I have learnt from beekeeping is that you never know it all and you can always learn something new from others.
That is why we have considered, lively, debate on this forum. Refereed in a kindly manner by the moderators.

 

[IndiBee]

RP was the first UK beekeeper I ever met (having only been working in bees once I moved to France). On returning to the UK he confirmed that what is done in the UK is the same as in France. Unfortunately I have never since found a like-minded Uk beekeeper here!
So, I think he is French but doesn't know it.

 

[pargyle]

"Beekeeping: Challenge what you are told"....just don't do it on this forum.

Oh I don't think so ... this forum has been a champion of innovation and experimentation since the day it came into being - it was born out of the dogma preached by the BBKA and their forum which was notorious for the removal of posts, threads and members that offered any sort of challenge to the 'established' ideas.

I've learnt so much on here (from all sorts of people) that you would never have found in the books - the variety of beekeeping styles, methods and principles is more varied than any other beekeeping place I've found on the internet.

It's a place where you can expect to be challenged if your idea has a downside but that's one of the benefits of having a wide and varied range of members - there's a few with fixed ideas but the debate usually ends up with enough balance to give you food for thought. I've never seen a post removed because it did not meet established (or not established) ideals. The moderation is light and posts that are abusive, personally directed, deliberately argumentative or contain matter not fit for a public forum are the only ones that get moderator attention.

 

[Boston Bees]

Save your money and just watch the video?

Or at least, the video will tell you what is in the book of the same name, one suspects. Then you can decide if you want a printed version or not.

Beekeeping: Challenge What You Are Told (Roger Patterson) - YouTube

 

[Amari]

The moderation is light and posts that are abusive, personally directed, deliberately argumentative or contain matter not fit for a public forum are the only ones that get moderator attention.

Not always light! Earlier in the year I took a photo of the main daily cartoon in The Times and posted it in "Off topic", inviting comment. The cartoon was OK for a family newspaper but obviously a bit strong for this forum - it got deleted - I wonder by which moderator?!

 

[understanding_bees]

. . . . The moderation is light and posts that are abusive, personally directed, deliberately argumentative or contain matter not fit for a public forum are the only ones that get moderator attention.

I look forward to this sentiment being exercised in future.

 

[Murox]

Save your money and just watch the video?

Or at least, the video will tell you what is in the book of the same name, one suspects. Then you can decide if you want a printed version or not.

Beekeeping: Challenge What You Are Told (Roger Patterson) - YouTube

I don't think I have enough patience or is it courage to watch another video featuring Patterson - The first (and for me the last) time I encountered him via u-tube left me a) shellshocked by his arrogant response to questions: b) frustrated at his apparent inability to string err umm err a err sentence together umm in a oh that reminds me err umm coherent way umm.: c) annoyed that he kept referring to queen failure but never once mentioned any cause other than to suggest they are all imported anyway :d) I am not a masochistic, but I look forward to an independent review of his writing some time soonish.

 

[pargyle]

Not always light! Earlier in the year I took a photo of the main daily cartoon in The Times and posted it in "Off topic", inviting comment. The cartoon was OK for a family newspaper but obviously a bit strong for this forum - it got deleted - I wonder by which moderator?!

It wasn't deleted ... it was moved to a more appropriate thread by the looks of it .... still there 'hands/face/bottom' ?

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/just-for-some-fun-an-excuse-to-smile.48955/page-29
Post #580

 

[pargyle]

I look forward to this sentiment being exercised in future.

It was always exercised in the past so I have no doubt that it will be in the future .... if you don't like the moderation you can always complain to the forum management ....

 

[Anduril]

His comment of 2 queen cells leading to a swarm in a chimney, place yourself on the swarm collectors list and collect the swarm from the chimney. This isn't covered by your bee insurance.

 

[Ian123]

Oh I don't think so ... this forum has been a champion of innovation and experimentation since the day it came into being - it was born out of the dogma preached by the BBKA and their forum which was notorious for the removal of posts, threads and members that offered any sort of challenge to the 'established' ideas.

That is rather ironic in the extreme along with the title of the book. If I remember rightly it was RP and his short spell as a moderator on the bbka site that saw more material deleted than any other Then when all the criticism got to much the site was closed for a period., as a board member/mod I’d imagine it fair to assume he also had a role in that Of all the people picked to write a book of this title he’s far from an obvious choice.

 

[victor meldrew]

This included the existing moderators . Me being one of them .
he even commanded that we shouldn’t message each other but run everything past him .
he called this brain storming . We called it brain washing KGB style . We then waved goodbye !

 

[madasafish]

I bought RP's original book and attended one of his full day talks.
Some of the work he did with BIBBA during lockdown was very good: the BBKA did SFA.

But I will not be spending any money or time on another of his books as he is largely predictable and his opinions appear firmly routed in his local environment which is warm and mild. And " local bees are best".

 

[Erichalfbee]

I look forward to this sentiment being exercised in future.

It is already here.
Most people accept it for what it is and to my mind if you are unhappy with any particular moderation you should report it. I always try to give an explanation by PM, rather than trying to whip up support in an existing thread.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This included the existing moderators . Me being one of them .
he even commanded that we shouldn’t message each other but run everything past him .
he called this brain storming . We called it brain washing KGB style . We then waved goodbye !

Yes what on earth was he thinking? At least we have him to thank for the creation of this forum.