New hives for today's superbee

[BKF Admin]

There must be a better way of spreading the queen's sent around by using some form of conduction in a hive rather than using a fan.

 

[JCBrum]

I don't see the problem with queen smell. Finman says he uses 3 lang bbs and it's fine. Why should it be a problem in one box instead of three.

A 525 cube is smaller externally than 3 langs so the radial distance from the centre is less.

I think in a cube the queen smell would be stronger than in 3 stacked boxes.

After all the purpose of this box is for super-bees which need the volume, - not WBC type bees which probably would have a problem in a big space.

It's 'horses for courses' isn't it ?

JC.

 

[Busy Bee]

Where would it all stop if the bees kept needing more and more space and bred more prolific - A WAREHOUSE.

Like cattle for instance, breeding cattle from a 450kg (3 year old) beef steer 1960 to 900kg Steer 2009 (18 months old)- Yiz see what I mean, where would it end.


Busy Bee

 

[JCBrum]

H Pete, you can make the bb hold a lot of cells just by going up a little bit on the cube side dimension.

The arithmetic is quite interesting, (sad), for example if you double the length of the cube side, then you have EIGHT TIMES (8x) the internal volume.

This means 10% increase in linear size gives a 33% increase in volume (no of cells).

A 50% increase in side size gives 330% increase in volume.

So ... if you consider a national at 18"x18" (461x461mm) and increase the side by 3" (76mm) to 537mm cube, then it holds 14 frames. Each frame is 23,000 cells x14 frames = total cells 322,000. less an allowance for wood and wire etc it's still bigger than 3 langs, and only 3 inches bigger than a National !!!

So my conclusion based on your requirements is 540mm cube is optimal.

See my next installment for the extractor design. It's simple and cheap.

JC.

 

[JCBrum]

A WAREHOUSE ! , Lady Bracknell ?

Where would it all stop if the bees kept needing more and more space and bred more prolific - A WAREHOUSE.
Busy Bee

Try extracting a warehouse, hee hee

JC.

 

[JCBrum]

Extracting frames 540mm (21") square.

Superbee brood frames at 540x540 won't fit in a hobby extractor.

BUT .... It's good news actually, 'cause there's only a quarter the number of them than you would have with nats, and the supers are only 540x150 anyway.

So .... How about you make a plywood tray 1200x600mm (4'x2') with sides 200mm (8") high and mount it flat on a cheap trailer or car stub axle so that it spins. It will take two brood frames laid flat and extract both sides at once radially.

You could drive it from a foot treadle, or a bicycle fixed alongside with a belt, (good excercise). or ... use the motor from an old tumble dryer with a section of the drum fixed under the tray to take the belt. Simple and cheap.

All this is for extracting brood frames, if you must, but you could do six of the super frames with the same kit, which would be the same as doing 18 !! nat supers !!

This is a good game. JC.

 

[hedgerow pete]

i am getting confused wht would you want to extract the brood frames any way its the super frames you will extract and they are are several inchs longer than what we are allready using so not to much differance there, the fan was a suggestion not a requirement, as was his recomdations on U values and hive thermal conduction, dont ask it made my head hurt thinking about it!

 

[JCBrum]

I mentioned extracting brood frames because Finman said he wanted to do it, and that was a reason for him to use triple bbs.

Regarding super frames, they are 2 or 3 inches longer. Probably with a small mod (lower the cage a bit), most extractors will accept them.

 

[DulwichGnome]

Do you need to have a hive designed 'approved'? Just thinking of when the bee inspector comes round and is faced with a brood frame of .5Mx.5M to look at.

What happens if an inspector refuses to inspect because of the design/size/state of a hive?

Still just thinking aloud.

Mike

 

[JCBrum]

Doh, - get a bigger inspector, silly.

JC.

 

[hedgerow pete]

since 1986 i have only allowed the bee imspector look through my hives twice 1989 and 1996 in both cases he talked complete rubbish, cause nothing but agro, both times ended up being thrown out of my apiary 1996 litterary, since then i refuse to let anyone lecture me on my bees and there upbringing and welfare, yes my bees are my bees and no one elses, and as for this nanny state we live in they can s** off,

to say how well my bees are looked after read this and read it carfully, cause there ant many who can say it truthfully


i do not have any varroa
again for those who did not under stand,
i do not have varroa
none
nada
zero
no treatments needed no poncing about with acids etc
i have no varroa

 

[JCBrum]

On Tuesday, I opened some sacrificial drone brood which was about to hatch and looked closely at the bees.

I couldn't find any varroa at all.

Maybe I "should have gone to Specsavers" .

JC.

 

[hedgerow pete]

varroa is one of those things that has become hyped up some have it some dont !

just wait for the mad responses to that posting

 

[Hivemaker.]

Pete,if the bee inspector wants to look in your hives they will,they have similar powers to the police,and can look at any colony they wish to.
You are lucky to not have even one varroa mite, perhaps its because they are all in everyone elses hives,its good, saves you having to treat in any way.

 

[JCBrum]

Do you mean they have to get a warrant first ?

 

[David P]

Not totally sure on this one but im pretty sure that they actually have similar powers to HM Customs, in that they dont need a warrant.

David

 

[David P]

Bee Inspectors have powers to enter any premises at any time to
inspect colonies, especially if pests or disease are thought to be present. However, they
always prefer to work alongside beekeepers with their full cooperation. All Bee
Inspectors carry a warrant card, which contains their photograph and details of their
authority to carry out the inspection.

Knew i'd seen it somewhere, for anyone who wants the full document it can be found at http://beebase.csl.gov.uk/pdfs/foulbrood.pdf

It is 17 pages long though


David

 

[Brian Bush]

This is one of the most facinating threads I have read on the forum. I can understand the desire for larger brood boxes. (I am assuming by super bees you mean imported crosses that seem to lay and lay. I have one that has done 14 sides of 14 X 12 frames in 7 days!!)
I like the idea of large volume bbs. Winter should not be too much of an issue as the colony will probably be larger but are we going to loose propertionately more crop to winter stores?
My main concern is the issue of frame sizes. Are we going to have a number of different 'heath robinson' designs? What of the weight of moving a BB ?Lifting a 14 X 12 the other days made me curse!

Why do we not agree on a new size, probably a cube. Get Hivemaker to build a few for an interested group. Disperse them amongst ourselves and see how we get on for a season. Mike the bee could supply super bee nucs to us all at cost!!! Sorry Mike!!!


I still have concerns about the frame sizes, constructing them and getting wax sheets. I like the aircraft wing idea. Build the frames and have double wires to support unwired foundation. I assume that people roll their own wax to any size sheet that they require.

PATENT THE DRAWINGS
If they are successful approach Thornes or another supplier and suggest this is the way forward. You could sell the idea via the forums and word of mouth.

You could still use national or langstroth super frames to fit extractors etc. It would only require a fillet on top of the brood box to close any hole.

Give it some thought chaps. I am up for giving it a go.

 

[hedgerow pete]

this is why i started this thread off, rather than waste several seasons of trial and error , i wanted to have as many ideas counted and discounted before i started, i was planning the complete new super hive but jcbrum's ideas make so much sence, there are hundreds of differing hive designs out there and i did not want this one to be a flash in the internet pan, its many rules off design was that i can still use national supers because of the wieght but we have a way of spliting the super box into two parts for weight, i was thinking of making one up over the winter but i will proberly also make several videos of it as well,my biggest worry if the design of the frames, knowing only to well how flexable a 12 by 14 frame can be will we have to redesign the frame construction, hard wood and metal corner brackets ?
back to you lot?

 

[JCBrum]

As far as frames and simplicity are concerned, a dadant frame extended down to 450mm is the easiest.

It produces 19"x18" frames which can be made from existing wood and wax components.

Make the brood box 20" (508mm) square to take 12 frames as above and it will hold 216,000 cells.

It's a square Dadant which is 18" deep.

JC.