Nearly 100% how about you?

[BMH]

That's really surprising.

All of mine from the heather and doing great and frames ahead of the others in terms of brood and overall numbers.

Wonder what happened to them?

 

[Icing Sugar]

I see there's still quite a bit of rubbish being spoken on here

In a typical wild colony where comb construction never exceeds demand, the amount of empty comb is indirectly proportional to the food security of the colony. Empty comb encourages foraging activity [1]. As the amount of empty comb increases within the limits that might be encountered in a large natural nest, a proportionate increase in foraging behaviour is induced [2]*. However, a saturation point is reached after which further increases in the amount of empty comb under experimental conditions does not induce an even bigger foraging response. Volatile odours emitted from empty comb have been shown to be responsible for the increased foraging [3]. However, the restoration of food security takes its toll: the lifespan of individual foraging bees is considerably shortened by their hard work. It therefore follows that maximum nectar influx represents poor foraging efficiency but this is a price worth paying if it ensures colony survival.

As in all aspects of beekeeping, there is more than one way to prepare colonies for winter. Sure, you can feed them with gallons of syrup if you want but you could get them to forage for their own winter stores. I believe that my approach works fine, as evidenced by the full supers as my colonies go into winter despite feeding very little syrup and the 0% losses since I adopted this approach. By moving from a single brood box to a brood box and a super I am increasing the size of the hive within volume parameters found in nature and the empty comb exploits an evidence-based natural survival instinct found in the bees. It is considerably cheaper than feeding syrup and I suspect that honey is a better winter feed for them [4]. Again, as in all aspects of beekeeping, you have to choose which pros and cons you choose to work with as you exploit the bees for your own ends - this is completely unavoidable. In the model I choose to use, the bees that are responsible for this late-season foraging activity will not be the same as the overwintering bees but experience seems to be telling me that there will be a subsequent worker population to fulfil this role. (Why not try it yourself... on a single colony in your apiary to start with?)

With regard to not feeding during protracted spells of poor weather, bees that are well adapted to the UK's "maritime environment" should survive without problem if they are suitably thrifty and if the egg-laying rate of the queen alters as it should. Any colonies in my apiary that cannot do these things are not colonies that I want.

With regard to starvation, March is the worst month for this for the reason that I have already given. You really shouldn't have any colonies starving to death earlier than this.

There can be no stock improvement without losses or culling. Unless you don't care about stock improvement, you simply have to choose how you go about this process. Therefore I think losses are important and we shouldn't mollycoddle our colonies if it allows weak or maladapted ones to survive when they ought not to. (NB Re-queening is essentially culling a colony in a way that allows a beekeeper to exploit their apiary capital to the maximum).


[1] Rinderer TE, Baxter JR. Effect of empty comb on hoarding behaviour and honey production of the honey bee. Journal of Economic Entomology. 1978;71:757–759.
[2] Rinderer TE. Maximal Stimulation by Comb of Honey Bee (Apis mellifera) Hoarding Behavior. Annals of the Entomological Society of America. 1982;75 (3):311–312.
[3] Rinderer TE. Volatiles from empty comb increase hoarding by the honeybee. Anim Behav. 1982;29:1275–1276.
[4] Wheeler MM, Robinson, GE. Diet-dependent gene expression in honey bees: honey vs. sucrose or high fructose corn syrup. Scientific Reports 2014; 4:5726

(* You exploit this fact when you put supers on your hive, which you do in a way that ensures there is always surplus empty comb).

 

[SDM]

I believe that my approach works fine, as evidenced by the full supers as my colonies go into winter despite feeding very little syrup and the 0% losses since I adopted this approach.





There can be no stock improvement without losses or culling. Unless you don't care about stock improvement, you simply have to choose how you go about this process. Therefore I think losses are important and we shouldn't mollycoddle our colonies if it allows weak or maladapted ones to survive when they ought not to.

I guess you don't​ care about stock improvement.

 

[SDM]

I
[4] Wheeler MM, Robinson, GE. Diet-dependent gene expression in honey bees: honey vs. sucrose or high fructose corn syrup. Scientific Reports 2014; 4:5726
.

What has this to do with supplemental feeding?

 

[Stiffy]

I don't have a clue, but good to see you back..

Glad you think so, I have been enjoying seeing some of the shyer members raise their heads without getting a silly quip as a response
S

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I see there's still quite a bit of rubbish being spoken on here

Good to see you have returned to the fold where your forthright input is valued.

 

[Finman]

, Last year I didn't open some until may

Then they swarm already. You should inspect the hives and add more space.

First thing is to inspect, does the queen lay worker brood or mere drone brood.
Many mated queen disappears during autumn and winter.

 

[Chriszog]

I see there's still quite a bit of rubbish being spoken on here

Here we go again!!!

 

[Icing Sugar]

I guess you don't​ care about stock improvement.

I do care about stock improvement as evidenced by my first post to this thread in which I bemoaned the fact that our winters no longer seem to provide any meaningful selection pressure for colonies. This has been my personal experience, even when I have deliberately fed my colonies considerably less in autumn and, as I indicated, I am now entertaining the idea of reintroducing a greater Nosema selection pressure by refraining from the use of thymolated syrup. Of all the available approaches, I would much rather choose which colonies to cull based on poor performance in minimally-interfered with local conditions and which to rear more queens from based on consistently good cross-generational performance under those same conditions, but the winter season has not helped me with this recently. [The first paragraph that you quote is part of my second post in which I defended myself against the comment that I was speaking rubbish and, as it was not indicated which specific part was rubbish (perhaps JBM considered it all to be rubbish?), I gave further explanation for each part of what I said].

I actually seem to be in good company regarding my approach to winter feeding. On David Cushman’s web site there is a page entitled “Feeding Honey Bees for Winter” and on this he wrote:

• “I myself stopped feeding for winter as a matter of routine in the late 1980s and have sometimes left a partially empty shallow super to receive any ivy honey and provide a reserve that the bees can use or ignore according to their needs. I commonly winter in only one National sized brood box, and providing they store 15 or so kilos of honey I will not feed further” *.

It is very important to point out that David Cushman kept locally-adapted bees which he claimed could overwinter well on honey stores without developing dysentery. In contrast, he said that bees unsuited to their wintering environment were more prone to dysentery if overwintered on honey rather than syrup. He believed this was because they could not tolerate the build-up of pollen husks in their rectums during the prolonged flight-free period. He said that overwintering such colonies on syrup resulted in fewer colony losses. However, he also said that bees fed syrup for overwintering stores carried less body fat into winter.

It is also interesting to note the relatively low amount of stores that he considered necessary for his locally-adapted bees to overwinter (15kg) whereas a beekeeper near to him who kept Italian bees apparently required 40kg or more of stores per hive for winter. Developing one's stock rather reminds me of a quote from George Orwell: "At 50, everyone has the face he deserves". For beekeepers we might say: "After 10 years, every beekeeper has the bees they deserve".

(* As an experiment, this winter I overwintered two colonies on nothing more than their brood boxes and whatever they could forage for themselves. They are still doing fine at the moment).

 

[Erichalfbee]

Of all the available approaches, I would much rather choose which colonies to cull based on poor performance in minimally-interfered with local conditions and which to rear more queens from based on consistently good cross-generational performance under those same conditions, but the winter season has not helped me with this recently.

Surely the prevailing winter conditions are part of that.

Heidi Hermann leaves her bees to it, catching the swarms that ensue but largely leaving them alone, save putting them into some sort of ceremonial container

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Surely the prevailing winter conditions are part of that.

Heidi Hermann leaves her bees to it, catching the swarms that ensue but largely leaving them alone, save putting them into some sort of ceremonial container

An urn?

 

[SDM]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icing Sugar View Post
Of all the available approaches, I would much rather choose which colonies to cull based on poor performance in minimally-interfered with local conditions and which to rear more queens from based on consistently good cross-generational performance under those same conditions, but the winter season has not helped me with this recently.

If YOU want to choose which colonies to cull based on performance, how has an absence of losses from natural selection affected that ? It seems your bees have adapted to the trend for less severe winters, but your own adaptation is a little ******** perhaps. You seem to have failed to notice that a return to regular severe winters is not very likely.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Quote:

You seem to have failed to notice that a return to regular severe winters is not very likely.

Depends on your interpretation of the various bits of scientific evidence regarding the earths heating / cooling cycles plus the suns activity cycles. I'm not inclined to be so believing of the warmist hysteria myself but time will tell.

 

[For want of a better word]

Originally Posted by Erichalfbee View Post
Surely the prevailing winter conditions are part of that.

Heidi Hermann leaves her bees to it, catching the swarms that ensue but largely leaving them alone, save putting them into some sort of ceremonial container

An urn?

"A nice little earner".. apparently!,,,,
the nut munchers just looooove them sweetie!

Myttin da

 

[Curley]

I'm not inclined to be so believing of the warmist hysteria myself but time will tell.

Because you're a qualified climatologist perhaps? Time will indeed tell, because if it is happening then we are collectively doing far too little about it and the next generation is stuffed. I betting you have insurance but the odds are you house won't burn down, you won't be burgled and you won't write your car off. So why bother?

Anyway off topic , sorry.

 

[For want of a better word]

I see there's still quite a bit of rubbish being spoken on here

Nice to see you back.. hope the tan does not wash off too soon.

Usual old carp from the "fishermans friends" et al... Agro~ farmer acquaintance said that the OSR he is now using would not benefit from bee pollinators as it is self pollinating.... also has been said that the new genetic varieties are triploid and have no nectar.... well at least my colonies will not be full of solidified stores!

Auntie Blodwyn is 96 today

Myttin da

 

[slangers]

Happy to report 100% too, which is a big relief after losing everything last winter. All flying well today, taking fondant and bringing back lots of pollen. As I have never had bees at this point in the year before, what do people advise on feeding syrup? When should I start?

 

[protheroe]

Happy to report 100% too, which is a big relief after losing everything last winter. All flying well today, taking fondant and bringing back lots of pollen. As I have never had bees at this point in the year before, what do people advise on feeding syrup? When should I start?

I started feeding my mini nucs and next week will be feeding some light colonies with syrup but only if really needed

 

[Beefriendly]

but the heather hive was bursting with bees and a youngish queen and loads of stores left behind.

Lost one like this year just a few bees left and loads of stores. Notes indicated that the queen stopped laying on the heather last September and whilst they were a strong colony going into the winter....my suspicion is she may not have laid enough winter bees.......of course it could be something totally different.

 

[For want of a better word]

Lost one like this year just a few bees left and loads of stores. Notes indicated that the queen stopped laying on the heather last September and whilst they were a strong colony going into the winter....my suspicion is she may not have laid enough winter bees.......of course it could be something totally different.

Poorly mated queens... seems to be a problem with bees in North West...
Willie has something to say about it in various journals.
Yeghes da