Natural England article on 'Non/Native' bees?

[Apiarist]

https://bibba.com/amm-in-uk/The above Link to an article was provided in another Thread, the sentence that caught my attention was this;

"...the official body promoting nature conservation south of the border, Natural England, whose staff maintain that the honey bee was introduced by man some 1500 years ago, is therefore not “native” to Britain, and should therefore be excluded from nature reserves"

I've heard this mentioned in passing by a few beekeepers and I recall it being referenced in a Research Article I think, but I cannot find anything published or any actual source for this claim. It's my understanding from hearing and reading elsewhere about it, that a published (article, paper, essay, etc) source is being referred to, but I have not been able to locate it. Does anyone know what is being referred to here, and more importantly can anyone point me towards the publication that I think is being referenced?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Well when we begin with the surmise that 'Natural England' are a force for the good I think we are already standing on boggy ground

 

[madasafish]

Natural England were the body - if I recall correctly - who were influential in stopping the dredging of drainage ditches leading to the 2014 flooding of the Somerset Levels. Denied as the cause but dredged ever since!

 

[Mint Bee]

Well, Natural England better start sourcing some big bee proof netting to prevent any rogue honey bees entering their reserves. Probably need to eradicate any feral nests already on site as well

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have hives 20m from a nature reserve, but I've told my girls not to go there so that's fine eh?

 

[Apiarisnt]

Ah, now I think I am beginning to understand. Rabbits are an even more recent introduction (introduced by the Normans in their Wisdom) so perhaps it has been Natural England that introduced rabbit haemorrhagic disease virus type 2 (RHDV2) (another northern French idea) having failed with mixie. But Natural England are up against a formidable enemy this time: The Grauniad;

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...elp-britains-decimated-population-bounce-back

 

[Apiarist]

Well that went off topic quickly

So, getting back on topic,

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ah, now I think I am beginning to understand. Rabbits are an even more recent introduction (introduced by the Normans in their Wisdom) so perhaps it has been Natural England that introduced rabbit haemorrhagic disease virus type 2 (RHDV2) (another northern French idea) having failed with mixie. But Natural England are up against a formidable enemy this time: The Grauniad;

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...elp-britains-decimated-population-bounce-back

Not just wild bunnies. Haemorrhagic disease kills pets too. There is a vaccine.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not just wild bunnies. Haemorrhagic disease kills pets too.

As does Myxi

 

[Wilco]

VHD2 seems to have a variant which affects hares too. But technically I believe they're non native...

I think most humans are non native to the UK so if we exclude those from the reserves maybe nature might have a chance...

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

"...the official body promoting nature conservation south of the border, Natural England, whose staff maintain that the honey bee was introduced by man some 1500 years ago, is therefore not “native” to Britain, and should therefore be excluded"

Hmm, about the same time as the english came here then, so non native.
Time to squish the queen and sort it out?

 

[Apiarist]

Seriously .... someone here has got to have some info. about this urban legend, anyone, anyone???

 

[RJC]

Apiarist - this may be the paper you are looking for ? Are honey bees native to Britain? And does it matter?

 

[RJC]

Sorry - that was the link to the blog; the paper is within it Are honey bees (apis mellifera L.) native to the British Isles? : Sussex Research Online

 

[Apiarist]

Thanks for that Link, but this is one of the Articles in which I came across this "claim", although in this case the "claim" is not directly attributed to Natural England, here's the sentence "Although it has been claimed that the Romans brought bees to Britain,"

This is something I find very frustrating with beekeeping publications, people who make a claim in their paper/essay but then give NO actual source for such a claim! Actually I'm one of those sad people that read the cited sources to get additional info. only to find that on some occasions the cited source does not say what it is claimed to say, in some occasions it says the opposite!

 

[rolande]

I seem to remember that the 'article' (possibly a v. long letter) by Dorian Pritchard was published in an old copy of Beekeeper's Quarterly. I've also seen stuff by Norman Carreck on the subject but can't be sure where but he does seem to be easily contactable (Carreck Consultancy).

 

[Pembroke]

The simplest solution might be to ask them? Natural England although as a government department you'll probably get a long reply that says nothing.

Have you tried asking the NBU? They might know where the Nature England stance comes from.

 

[0bee-1]

Hi i think the confusion stems for this article in the Conservation and Land Managment (honeybees on nature reserves 5(2):16-17; 6(2):20)
RANDALL, R; SHEPPARD, D (2007) To bee or not to bee? Honey bees on nature
reserves. Conservation Land Management, Summer 2007: 16–17.

Dave Sheppard was (not sure he works for NE anymore) worked as an ecoloogist/entomologist for English Nature now NE. this is where the NE angle has come from regarding honeybees as native and on nature reserves. I am not sure it is actually NE policy as i certainly know of one NE employee who keeps honeybee hives on an NNR (National Nature Reserve).

it is very much down to the view of local NE Site Managers and whether they feel it appropriate for their reserve. I could be wrong but can ask my contacts at NE locally and update here. working for a large conservation charity which does where possible support beekeeping there is usually a bit of paperwork to complete (i have hives on one of my sites) like all things in life just ask and see where it gets you

on the issue of native honeybees I have read several papers on this (inc one above) and have no doubt that honeybees colonised before the land bridge was lost between our islands and continental Europe. if frogs and reptiles could do it why not honeybees..!?!. except Ireland...
Ireland is the only place i do wonder about and bees could have possibly been introduced ... but a long time ago! not read any research on that happy to be proved wrong
Steve

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Ireland is the only place i do wonder about and bees could have possibly been introduced ... but a long time ago! not read any research on that happy to be proved wrong

That's an easy one, when St Modomnoc (Dominic) who was St David's student and beekeeper returned to his homeland (Ireland) he took some of the bees with him which St David had gifted to the people of Ireland

 

[0bee-1]

That's an easy one, when St Modomnoc (Dominic) who was St David's student and beekeeper returned to his homeland (Ireland) he took some of the bees with him which St David had gifted to the people of Ireland

So much to learn are there genetic linkages between Welsh and Irish bees?? (given Dutch French bee genetics have been detected)