National to Smith ?

[Dadnlad]

With luck and plenty of 'touching wood', my single hive (National) that I was given to look after last year seems to be doing well with bees flying on sunny days, bits of pollen coming in and just starting on their 2nd block of fondant

I've read and understand that for many reasons it's better for a hobby beek to have a minimum of 2 colonies, so subsequently in the autumn I picked up two old Smith hives for a song and have repaired and repainted them ready to go

Whilst swotting up on the various methods of artificial swarming, it only just dawned on me that I will somehow have to fit a National brood frame with eggs/larvae and queen into a Smith brood box. I have plenty of Smith frames ready to go, and although I'm perfectly capable of sawing off the ends of the National frame lugs by however many mill necessary on the day, it would seem unnecessarily disruptive to the bees !

Is there a calmer less disruptive means of getting round this problem ?

 

[Pete D]

Put some Smiths frames in the National box in spring, get them drawn and try to move them in so the queen is laying on one of them by the time artificial swarming is required.
Or at first inspection take the National frames without brood on and cut them down before replacing them. Shuffle them over with each inspection and keep whipping the ends off of the end one or 2.
Pete D

 

[MuswellMetro]

With luck and plenty of 'touching wood', my single hive (National) that I was given to look after last year seems to be doing well with bees flying on sunny days, bits of pollen coming in and just starting on their 2nd block of fondant

I've read and understand that for many reasons it's better for a hobby beek to have a minimum of 2 colonies, so subsequently in the autumn I picked up two old Smith hives for a song and have repaired and repainted them ready to go

Whilst swotting up on the various methods of artificial swarming, it only just dawned on me that I will somehow have to fit a National brood frame with eggs/larvae and queen into a Smith brood box. I have plenty of Smith frames ready to go, and although I'm perfectly capable of sawing off the ends of the National frame lugs by however many mill necessary on the day, it would seem unnecessarily disruptive to the bees !

Is there a calmer less disruptive means of getting round this problem ?

my cousin keeps bees on WBC , Smiths & national. He stardises on Smith short lug frames that don't cause problem in a WBC or national brood

However he also has a template that fits between a national and a smith to allow him to do a bailey comb change with different size brood box....the template is 9mm ply the size of a national with a smith size cut out..works quite well

 

[sherwood]

my cousin keeps bees on WBC , Smiths & national. He stardises on Smith short lug frames that don't cause problem in a WBC or national brood

However he also has a template that fits between a national and a smith to allow him to do a bailey comb change with different size brood box....the template is 9mm ply the size of a national with a smith size cut out..works quite well

Exactly what I would do so you accomplish 2 jobs in one ie bailey transfer and move the bees from one frame to another. I too would recommend standardising on the smith frame, all you have to do is fit a strip along each rebate on the national hive equivelent to the reduction in lug size, you can then modify your existing national frames.

 

[Ruary]

Use seccateurs to cut the lugs

 

[Dadnlad]

Cheers for your replies

Changing out the old combs onto Smiths at spring inspection sounds like a good plan

I hadn't realised I could put a Smith BB above a National BB with the ply template to cover the gap - simple really

 

[Into the lions den]

Use seccateurs to cut the lugs

Yep, and I do not know if you still can get them, but some of the appliance houses used to sell the secateurs with a metal bracket exactly the right size on the side of the blade..................place the metal lug against the side bar, snip.........instant Smith lug length. If I went digging here I could find such a tool, as we had at least one set when my father was 'the bee man'.

Templates not quite as straghtforward as you might think..........................needs to be made of thickish plywood to provide the spacing when adding a top bee space (thus with none at the bottom) hive on top of a bottom bee space hive (with none at the top) .

 

[Excession]

With luck and plenty of 'touching wood'

please! This is a family friendly site!!

 

[MuswellMetro]

Use seccateurs to cut the lugs

bolt cutters are quicker but you are more likley to loose fingers

 

[beekeeping4you]

Hi Dadnlad,
Secateurs with a metal bracket would be the ideal solution, but in the absence of such a tool (and we are talking about the frames of one colony here, aren't we?) you could use a role of insulation tape 19mm wide held against the side bar as a guide and cut the lug from the underside with a jigsaw or one of these foldable pocket saws.
The cutting takes only a few seconds.
We did it with frames containing capped and open brood in the apiary and it didn't seem to be disruptive to the bees. The roof of the hive was used as a work bench.

(We transferred our ex-national frames into 13-frame Langstroth boxes)

Regards,
Reiner