Much fanning and commotion

[monarda]

This afternoon , approaching my hives , I heard a rather ominous sound and thought I was being visited by a swarm , mine are not expected to and I have baited trap set out. Turned out that there were many bees covering the faces of 2 nucs I have made up from a split ,there was much fanning going on and the sky was full of bees circling around. Each nuc should now have emerged queens that could be ready for mating flights anytime from today onwards. This commotion lasted about 15min and everything returned to normal-any idea what it was that I was seeing please ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Mating flights

 

[monarda]

Many thanks Jenkinsbrynmair for info, I was hoping that this was the case but was a bit unsure having not witnessed the likes before.Great photos.
Cheers
Dave

 

[beeno]

Hi Monarda, IMHO what you were witnessing was orientation flights of new and old foragers. Because you have virgins in there lots of the neighbourhood's drones are also present and they make hell of a racket!

 

[monarda]

Many thanks for replying Beeno, so ( and not for the first time) Im now a little confused. Was it a mating or orientation flight ? If orientation , which I have seen often enough with other hives, why this time would there be so many bees out on the landing board , bums in air and fanning like crazy ?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

and why the need for mass orientation when you have a colony that has been queenless for at least a couple of weeks.
I've seen enough orientation flights to know the difference, I have witnessed (only) a half dozen definite mating flights to recognise what has been described.

 

[Wingy]

I witnessed this last year hive swarmed & I caught & re hives it. Then when the VQ came out for her mating flight it was as if the bees were swarming again. I knew it couldn’t have been and it was interesting to watch as they all circled & came back

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

happens more often than people think - noone can say they spend all day staring at a hive to just state outright it never happens. I was working in the apiary or nearby the times I witnessed it and in those days used to keep the camera handy in case I saw anything interesting.
Pretty definite evidence, a five frame nuc with (only one) newly emerged queen. Big bustle as you would expect from a swarm, out they come, apiary a black cloud of bees with me in the middle, they gathered, did a circuit of the garden, a circuit of the units behind, then a pause before descending once more on the nuc and queueing up to go back inside. it happened two or three days on the trot, then a few days later - eggs then brood (I think I still have her descendants in one of my apiaries)

 

[beeno]

and why the need for mass orientation when you have a colony that has been queenless for at least a couple of weeks.
I've seen enough orientation flights to know the difference, I have witnessed (only) a half dozen definite mating flights to recognise what has been described.

Queenlessness has nothing to do with orientation flights. The hive will be filled with BIAS and as the bees become of age they will undertake orientation flights. I would also presume as the foragers are recruited to new foraging sites on a daily basis they would circle the hive a few times to tune into the directions given in the waggle dance.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Queenlessness has nothing to do with orientation flights. The hive will be filled with BIAS and as the bees become of age they will undertake orientation flights. I would also presume as the foragers are recruited to new foraging sites on a daily basis they would circle the hive a few times to tune into the directions given in the waggle dance.

The usual twaddle from the usual source
by the time the queens would have emerged there would have been little brood left and presume or assume what you like an early morning reset flight for foragers is nothing like what the OP described

 

[monarda]

The usual twaddle from the usual source
by the time the queens would have emerged there would have been little brood left and presume or assume what you like an early morning reset flight for foragers is nothing like what the OP described

I know I should not of but yesterday could not resist a very quick peek inside - queen cells torn down ( following Wally Shaws advice I left multiple cells in each nuc and let the bees choose ) and yep no brood to be seen. Today I noticed pollen going into both , so hopefully I now have two new mated queens

 

[beeno]

happens more often than people think - noone can say they spend all day staring at a hive to just state outright it never happens
I was working in the apiary or nearby the times I witnessed it and in those days used to keep the camera handy in case I saw anything interesting.
Pretty definite evidence, a five frame nuc with (only one) newly emerged queen. Big bustle as you would expect from a swarm, out they come, apiary a black cloud of bees with me in the middle, they gathered, did a circuit of the garden, a circuit of the units behind, then a pause before descending once more on the nuc and queueing up to go back inside. it happened two or three days on the trot, then a few days later - eggs then brood (I think I still have her descendants in one of my apiaries)[/QUOTE
The whole point, of what you call mating flights, is that the virgin queen is still in the hive whilst it is going on! So, she is not being mated then is she. I removed her into a nuc and left a very nice QC that was getting a lot of attention from workers. If she had flown it would have been a cast swarm which in the old literature used to be called a mating swarm thereof the confusion. The reason the swarm came back to the hive was that she was not with them. The queen is a laggard, not the first out. What it really was is an aborted swarm attempt. This has now happened on three different occasions over the years. With your entrenched attitude you would not even check it out would you.
The so called "staring post" - She said No, no, no ...no" was to do with seeing a virgin leaving on mating flights and sorry guys she flew unaccompanied with no fanfare. I have seen them come back before from 1210hrs to 1730hrs incl. one with the 'mating sign'.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You, as usual are wrong, more to the point you are misleading beginners who know no better. I have nothing more to say on the subject..

 

[beeno]

I know I should not of but yesterday could not resist a very quick peek inside - queen cells torn down ( following Wally Shaws advice I left multiple cells in each nuc and let the bees choose ) and yep no brood to be seen. Today I noticed pollen going into both , so hopefully I now have two new mated queens

I rest my case. You probably witnessed an aborted swarm attempt - more than one QC as you both, you and the first virgin out missed one. So, you have most probably lost a small cast as environmental conditions are such that they go for it at the moment unless they had a bitch fight. Thanks for your honesty. Good luck!

 

[Swarm]

Sorry Beeno, how can you rest your case when you are talking of probables? All you are doing is guessing at what happened.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As usual - more absolute rubbish from the usual source Steve - take it from where it came from.
Not the place for this debate (probably why it's here) it's just confusing the beginners even further.