More Space needed?

[dscanlan81]

Hi,

I've been reading on here "when they look like they need more space" or "when more space is needed"

but what are the signs of that? How do you know when more space is required?

 

[REDWOOD]

Hi,

I've been reading on here "when they look like they need more space" or "when more space is needed"

but what are the signs of that? How do you know when more space is required?

Good question, seven frames of BIAS in the norm, BUT adding a super is not giving the queen more room only the bees, if the queen needs more room then double brood or brood and a half.

Now we have a flow on, we don't want the bees to fill the BB with honey as this will stop the queen laying so do we put a super on, only if the bees have about 2 frames of stores and providing the queen has plenty of room to lay otherwise double brood

I am sure others will have different ideas but that's mine

 

[pargyle]

There's a number of factors and it depends upon the time in the season.

Coming out of winter, if you have got into the situation of overfeeding if they have a hive full of stores and the queen starts to lay then she may not have enough room to lay.

In a honey flow, if you haven't got a super on and they have filled the brood box with honey.

If you have a prolifically laying queen and the colony is developing fast and you are on one of the smaller format hives with insufficient space or no supers on to give them room for their stores.

So .. your inspection routine (once you get into weather suitable for inspections) should include how much space there is in the brood area and what the mix of stores, pollen, capped brood, uncapped brood and eggs is - related to the number of empty, cleaned cells available for the queen to lay in. The mix of BIAS will tell you how much the queen is laying and if the colony is expanding (ie: during the season and not in Autumn) then you should be looking to have enough space in the brood area to allow her to lay at the same rate (bearing in mind that capped brood will be hatching and the time that the brood has been capped).

There's others but they are just variations on the theme.

Get it wrong and they will, potentially, swarm ... or at least start getting ready to swarm.

 

[Dishmop]

BUT adding a super is not giving the queen more room only the bees,

only if you put an excuder on.

 

[enrico]

only if you put an excuder on.

I agree, at this time of the year nothing is lost leaving an excluder off, especially when the brood box is full of stores, you can always make sure the queen isn't in there and put an excluder under it later in the year if you need/want to.
E

 

[beeno]

Hi,

I've been reading on here "when they look like they need more space" or "when more space is needed"

but what are the signs of that? How do you know when more space is required?

Hi dscanlan81,
As above +
There are three 'types of room' required to endeavour to stop swarming, but room is not the only reason bees swarm of course.
1. Room for the queen to lay. If the brood nest (where the queen is presently laying) is full of honey (honey bound) or full of brood.
2. Room for the bees themselves to sit. Frames boiling over with bees.
3. Room for the bees to store nectar for evaporation. When flow is on and weather is warm super when there is only two unoccupied frames left in brood box ( I believe is the general rule?).
IMHO most of the above is not a problem at the moment, but may be in a couple of weeks time. The major problem as I see it this spring is that the bees have eaten a lot less stores than on previous years and point 1 would then apply. Hope this helps a little. Good luck to all, but most of all enjoy this exciting hobby!

 

[Amari]

Good question, seven frames of BIAS in the norm, BUT adding a super is not giving the queen more room only the bees, if the queen needs more room then double brood or brood and a half.

Now we have a flow on, we don't want the bees to fill the BB with honey as this will stop the queen laying so do we put a super on, only if the bees have about 2 frames of stores and providing the queen has plenty of room to lay otherwise double brood
I am sure others will have different ideas but that's mine

Flow, What flow?

 

[Dishmop]

The major problem as I see it this spring is that the bees have eaten a lot less stores than on previous years

In actual fact I find that they dont eat much during the winter. They start eating it when they start flying because they need the energy. They are bringing in new stores but eating the old stuff. Have watched my bees do this for three winters now....
When they start flying after winter there is approx 2/3 of the stores that were there as when they went into winter.
My bees have been out everyday for the last 25 days. During that period the capped stores have visibly got less each day, but other cells are slowly filling up.

 

[Dishmop]

Flow, What flow?

Floods?

 

[Erichalfbee]

In actual fact I find that they dont eat much during the winter. They start eating it when they start flying because they need the energy.

Yes, I'd second that

 

[pargyle]

In actual fact I find that they dont eat much during the winter. They start eating it when they start flying because they need the energy. They are bringing in new stores but eating the old stuff. Have watched my bees do this for three winters now....
When they start flying after winter there is approx 2/3 of the stores that were there as when they went into winter.
My bees have been out everyday for the last 25 days. During that period the capped stores have visibly got less each day, but other cells are slowly filling up.

Yes yes yes ... I've been hive weighing over the winter and despite having a very well insulated hive and consequently very active bees the weight has not dropped anywhere near what I anticipated ...until last week ... despite bringing in buckets full of pollen the hive weight dropped by more than any previous two week drop over winter.

I've not looked inside yet but when I do I rather expect to see a lot of stores gone, a fair amount of brood and quite a lot of stored pollen ... this patience thing is very hard to handle for a Newbie ... Trying to hang on until April before taking the crown board off ...

 

[Dishmop]

I've been hive weighing over the winter and despite having a very well insulated hive and consequently very active bees the weight has not dropped anywhere near what I anticipated .

My view of hefting,

Stand on the bathroon scales holding a bag of chips,

Total weight is XXX

Eat the chips.

Total weight?