Mike Palmer nuc method for UK national size

[Courty]

Hi,
Anyone know where I can get the four frame nuc boxes in the UK that will fit side by side on a British National brood box to try Mike Palmer’s method of running nucleus colonies?
They would need to be 9 1/8” wide to sit together and fit the footprint of a standard brood box.
I’ve looked into his methods and they look promising for the future.
Has anyone on here in the UK tried this method?
I’m looking at costs to compare to just using standard nucs and planning for warmer months. As probably a lot of us are doing right now!
Thanks
Courty

 

[Poly Hive]

Personally I have never heard of 4 frame nuc boxes in the UK.

No wish to burst any bubbles but my experience is that if you put two nucs side by side one wins over the other and so one fails.

PH

 

[Beefriendly]

 

[Courty]

Poly Hive,
You are welcome to burst my bubbles, the bees do it often enough. It makes sense to me to make my equipment as interchangeable and compatible as possible.
As for nucs being side by side, would opposite facing entrances make a difference?
In your experience is there an optimal distance between nucs that reduces the competition?

Thanks
Courty

 

[Poly Hive]

Head to tail makes no odds. One will very likely fail.

If you are making nuc boxes then go for 6 frames. I ensure mine have distinctive markings and with that three feet apart is fine.

PH

 

[Jimmy]

I have a peak hives 5 frame wooden nuc that I'm pretty sure is exactly half the width of a standard national brood. Presumably 2 side by side would fit under a national roof. Looking at the website the nucs are now 6 frame but a quick scan suggests that he would make nucs to your spec. Very well made but Admin ( Mark ) might not fully concur.


You might want to look at the BS honeybees 2 in 1 nuchttps://www.-------------------/polyhives which would probably do what you want.

 

[Finman]

Poly nucs are splended because they are warm. Build up is strong.
Wooden boxes are really cold. I have used them 30 years.

I normally I start with 3 frame mating nucs. Arter 4 weeks the nuc needs space to expand.
I may join two 3 frame nuc, or I may move the nuc to a five frame nuc. ... there are alternatives. I may add two frames of emerging brood frames.

 

[Ian123]

Hi courty I guess you are looking at his stacks of four frame brood producers.....I use 5 frame wood boxes and if I was you would head that direction 2 five frame boxes also sit under a National roof with super as eke when feeding. That saves 2 individual roofs and uses existing equipment for the eke. Whilst I am in the sunny south!!! I can happily overwinter in 5 frame wooden boxes dropping to 4 appears a bit mean. I have never had any issues with side by side what so ever and yes entrances faced opposite ways. This obviously assumes wood working skills that doesn’t leave gaps, I have on a few occasions added a super to a double nuc and got a full super without the loss of any queen but use 1 of those horrible flat queen excluders to prevent contact between queens. I only ever did it to see if it could be done!! With 5 frame boxes you should still get the tower effect and still benefit from the fact bees will push up. All crown boards have a meshed hole that’s only popped when covered with a feeder.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Don't think so, Courty, unless you want to convert to Lang poly (not too late ), in which case Honeypaw make a 4-frame nucbox; pairs sit together on a brood body as you describe. If you want National, it's time to get out the table saw.

Application of Michael's plan using Nationals has been chewed over before: https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32234. I guess you mean this method at 22.01?

 

[bpmurray]

Have you considered using one of the split nucs from bshoneybees? Only 3 frames per half nuc, but it seems very similar otherwise.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Hi,
Anyone know where I can get the four frame nuc boxes in the UK that will fit side by side on a British National brood box to try Mike Palmer’s method of running nucleus colonies?
They would need to be 9 1/8” wide to sit together and fit the footprint of a standard brood box.
I’ve looked into his methods and they look promising for the future.
Has anyone on here in the UK tried this method?
I’m looking at costs to compare to just using standard nucs and planning for warmer months. As probably a lot of us are doing right now!
Thanks
Courty

I have made 5 frame nucs that fit together under a single standard national roof and also stack as double nucs..... they are great for over wintering.
I put an underfloor entrance at each side to avoid drifting.

I used the Roger Patterson nuc design on the Dave Cushman site
http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/roger_nuc_box.html
But reduced the internal width from 215 to 198 and reduced the 19mm side thickness to 16mm this gives a external dimension of 230 exactly half of National box footprint.

 

[Bassett]

Purchased two half hives from Heather Bell Bees Ltd, Cornwall,
Together they measure 18" square. Comes with open mesh floor.
I made two queen excluders and put on standard supers.
Ran with a queen in each box and bees seemed happy mixing in a standard super.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Purchased two half hives from Heather Bell Bees Ltd, Cornwall,
Together they measure 18" square. Comes with open mesh floor.
I made two queen excluders and put on standard supers.
Ran with a queen in each box and bees seemed happy mixing in a standard super.

A queen in each half brood?
And a super?
How long did you run that for?

 

[Ian123]

A queen in each half brood?
And a super?
How long did you run that for?

Done it myself as mentioned in previous post I have some dbl nucs in a single brood box 6/5 frame flexi qx over the top of the pair and add super not really any different from 2 queen hive system. If you want to be safe add a sheet of paper or squirt of glade!! 2 strong nucs will fill a super on the main flow.

 

[For want of a better word]

Purchased two half hives from Heather Bell Bees Ltd, Cornwall,
Together they measure 18" square. Comes with open mesh floor.
I made two queen excluders and put on standard supers.
Ran with a queen in each box and bees seemed happy mixing in a standard super.

Always a problem when someone re invents the wheel... what colour should it be painted?

Exmoor Bees make similar boxes that fit neatly together on a modified floor, under a BS National roof and of course do not forget the Rose Hive system that probably pioneered pairing two boxes with a queen in each under one roof.
I suppose they could be called four or 5 frame nuc boxes? as separate floors and roofs are also available!
I know they must be good as my Master Beekeeper acquaintance uses them all the time!
Dropped in to see Auntie Doris at Sibleyback on the way back from Sennen and her native black bee exploits seem to be going very well with colonies spread all over Cornwall

 

[Erichalfbee]

Done it myself as mentioned in previous post I have some dbl nucs in a single brood box 6/5 frame flexi qx over the top of the pair and add super not really any different from 2 queen hive system. If you want to be safe add a sheet of paper or squirt of glade!! 2 strong nucs will fill a super on the main flow.

I’m sure the bees would mix
No, I meant how long before a strong nuc outgrows half a brood box?

 

[Poly Hive]

Depends on the strength to start with.

If it's made up as a strong nuc with a mated queen it could be a couple of weeks.

If its two frames of brood and a cell...... etc etc.

I will just add that if you get away with nucs close together then great but please be aware you can lose one. It is a real risk which is why I gave up on it as a "method" years ago. The cost of a nuc roof compared to the value of a nuc is surely a no brainer.

PH

 

[foghornleghorn]

Depends on the strength to start with.

If it's made up as a strong nuc with a mated queen it could be a couple of weeks.

If its two frames of brood and a cell...... etc etc.

I will just add that if you get away with nucs close together then great but please be aware you can lose one. It is a real risk which is why I gave up on it as a "method" years ago. The cost of a nuc roof compared to the value of a nuc is surely a no brainer.

PH

What way used you run nucs close together that gave issues?

 

[Poly Hive]

A securely divided brood box with entrances at opposite corners. Tried it several times and the result was the same every time, two became one.

Never used it since.

PH

 

[Finman]

A securely divided brood box with entrances at opposite corners. Tried it several times and the result was the same every time, two became one.

Never used it since.

PH

That is my experience too. When I used 2 or 3 entrance mating boxes , losses of queens were big. Then I started to use single nuc system and losses vanished.


And that I wonder : mesh floor in the nuc. I use 2 x 2 cm entrance in 4 frame nucs . Why air hole should be tens of times bigger? Where it is needed?