Making up a Nuc box - have I got this right?

[Eddie_H]

I have Queen cells in hive and was gonna make up a nuc box.

I’m thinking out loud here So just need confirmation I’m doing this right.

So.....
Take Queen from hive, put into nuc box. Add frames of brood and stores to nuc.

Leave best QC in hive and wait until Q emerges.

Ok, but I’m wondering do I need to move hive from it’s position like when you do an artificial swarm? When you move hive to one side.

And , the made up nuc box is ok in the apiary? I don’t have to move it >3 miles away?

Thanks in advance

 

[thedozzer]

Sounds about right, but we are no experts! we did a split after the old queen swarmed to the empty hive next door, then took 2 frames of BIAS from original hive + frame of stores, with 2 viable QC's in and left a 2 viable QC's in the hive so all three within 20ft of each other, we got a tiny bit of drifting but all three are now queen right. and one is in its new home with a another member on here doing really well.
We left 2 QC's for each colony as we had been advised its a bit of an insurance policy if one goes wrong, but it does mean the possibility of a cast swarm.
As long as each colony that you create has got enough bees and stores they seem to adapt to all the mucking about we do to them quite well.

 

[butchtaylor909]

i did it the other way round.
i left the queen in the hive and moved the frames with QCs into the nucs.
One frame per nuc, knocking down to only two QCs then filed up with frames of BIAS and stores. And one of just foundation to keep them busy whilst she mates, AFAIK this is optional but it worked for me and now i have 3 more colonies that i have just moved into full size hives. And from one of my other hives, three nucs where the queens have just started laying.
All in the same apiary so i had the flying bees return to the original hives but the frames were bursting with bees when i moved them, so there were plenty to stay on keep things going.

 

[Madge]

Eddie, are you a beginner beekeeper? In that case, if you have another hive, then I suggest just do a normal Pagden artificial swarm.

But if you want to put the queen in a nuc, the easiest option is to move her to another apiary. If you can’t do that, then remember a lot of the bees with her in the nuc will return to their old hive on the original site. Add a couple of extra shakes of bees to the nuc, and return in a couple of days to check that the nuc is fine.

In the original hive choose one good open cell where you can see the larva, and destroy the rest. Mark that cell. Return in a week and destroy all new emergency cells they’ve made, keeping just the original marked cell.

 

[Eddie_H]

Eddie, are you a beginner beekeeper? In that case, if you have another hive, then I suggest just do a normal Pagden artificial swarm.

But if you want to put the queen in a nuc, the easiest option is to move her to another apiary. If you can’t do that, then remember a lot of the bees with her in the nuc will return to their old hive on the original site. Add a couple of extra shakes of bees to the nuc, and return in a couple of days to check that the nuc is fine.

In the original hive choose one good open cell where you can see the larva, and destroy the rest. Mark that cell. Return in a week and destroy all new emergency cells they’ve made, keeping just the original marked cell.

Yeah a couple of years

Thought it might be better to put Q in nuc rather than in a big empty hive where they’d be albe to cluster better than in a brood box

Q cells are on bottom of frames so nuc might not be deep enough for the Q cell (will check that when I get home).. That’s why I thought it best to put Q in the nuc, rather than the QC

 

[enrico]

Eddie
There are two main ways.
The first is to mimic a swarm
Old queen on one frame of brood put into new hive with new foundation on the old site
Old hive moved to one side and left with one or two good queen cells.
This means all the flying bees leaving the old hive will end up in the new hive with the old queen. Loads of comb to build just like a swarm, while the old hive will be left with queen cells, brood and nurse bees as they would if a swarm had left.
The second option is to take the queen and a couple of frames to one side and put them in a nuc. They will be slow to build up but will eventually give you a new hive. The old hive is just left with a couple of queen cells, however they will make more and need regular checks to make sure you end up with one virgin queen. This is not guaranteed to stop swarming fever. I.e. you may end up losing the first queen out with a swarm.
That is briefly two of the main options
E

 

[Vortex]

People over complicate making up nucs especially when performing a split due to finding QC (capped or not).

The easy method..
Take 2 frames capped brood... put in Nuc.
Take 1 frame stores …. put in Nuc
Take frame with 2 Uncapped QC and put in nuc

Put nuc where you want it.....

Go through donor colony and destroy all QC (unless there are no eggs in the colony in which case leave 2 Uncapped QC).

Assuming that there were eggs in donor colony...
7 days later inspect Nuc.
If the Queen got put in the nuc the QC will be destroyed and you'll have eggs otherwise the QC will be capped and they'll be no eggs.
Now inspect your colony knowing where the queen is.

 

[Madge]

Yeah a couple of years



Thought it might be better to put Q in nuc rather than in a big empty hive where they’d be albe to cluster better than in a brood box



Q cells are on bottom of frames so nuc might not be deep enough for the Q cell (will check that when I get home).. That’s why I thought it best to put Q in the nuc, rather than the QC

Eddie, if you do a Pagden, the queen will have plenty of company. See first option in Enrico’s post.

But it sounds to me that you don’t have a second hive to use - just a nuc. In that case, just note the cautions I’ve already mentioned.

 

[Eddie_H]

Decided to try an artificial swarm, rather than the nuc

However I’ve spent 2 hrs trying to find the Queen. Tried that 2 frame together method about 8 or 9 times. Tried for a couple of hours last nite too. And tried taking each frame from the hive and setting it into a separate brood box but still no joy.I finally gave up looking mainly due To being absolutely exhausted . Queen is there because there is fresh 1-2 day old eggs

This has been the most frustrating time I’ve experienced so far keeping bees.I’ve probably another 1 or possibly 2 days before the QC’s would be sealed.

 

[Eddie_H]

i did it the other way round.
i left the queen in the hive and moved the frames with QCs into the nucs.
One frame per nuc, knocking down to only two QCs then filed up with frames of BIAS and stores. And one of just foundation to keep them busy whilst she mates, AFAIK this is optional but it worked for me and now i have 3 more colonies that i have just moved into full size hives. And from one of my other hives, three nucs where the queens have just started laying.
All in the same apiary so i had the flying bees return to the original hives but the frames were bursting with bees when i moved them, so there were plenty to stay on keep things going.

Ok so ive calmed down and had a breather

As I can’t find the Q maybe that’s the way to go.

Would the hive not continue to make Q cells though? Maybe they want shot of that queen and if I just leave her there (and remove the Q cells), surely they will still want shot of her And will make more Q cells?

 

[butchtaylor909]

Ok so ive calmed down and had a breather

As I can’t find the Q maybe that’s the way to go.

Would the hive not continue to make Q cells though? Maybe they want shot of that queen and if I just leave her there (and remove the Q cells), surely they will still want shot of her And will make more Q cells?

yep i always take a step back have a cup of tea then look at the issue again
the BS honeybee nucs were deep enough to accept even with QCs hanging off the bottom of the frames. the correx boxes i use in emergencies are not.

if the queen is not in there they will run out of viable eggs/larvae to raise new Qs from. If she is in there you will definitely know if they try to raise Qs again. then you will have a more defined course of action.

only been at it myself for a couple of years and can only say what i have done.

 

[eltalia]

I have Queen cells in hive and was gonna make up a nuc box.
I’m thinking out loud here So just need confirmation I’m doing this right.

As an overview - of all posted thusfar - it reads to myself as the impetus to build
"Nuc"(sic) is more than askew in purpose, and so then the outcomes are varied.
Were c'mrcl nuclei suppliers to adopt practices mentioned here they'd be out the
back door in a single season!
Starter colonys are built on the buildup, long before any swarm urge is imminent.
Queens are purpose bred, n0t taken from supercede reactives in either swarming
or poor performance of a queen.

And it is soooo simple..!... as if it were complicated a lot less new starters would
leap into supply as an income stream, in the second year of beekeeping!
*Select a frame of capped brood.
*Select a frame of open brood with newer larvae and feed stores.
*Select two frames of stores, one wholly partially capped honey.
* Add one new frame to position #4 (optional)
*Add the queen cage - push or package style.
* Close the entrance (mesh) and set aside for 24hrs.
All frames covered to 80% by bees at least one level deep.

Toooo easy!


Bill

 

[Madge]

...



As I can’t find the Q maybe that’s the way to go.



Would the hive not continue to make Q cells though? ...?

Yes, just moving frames of brood and the queencell or cells to a nuc won’t calm the swarming fever of the mother’s hive.

If there’s only one cell, then it might be supersedure. Often, when only one cell, and I’m not sure it’s supersedure, I just break it down. But if they’ve made more on the next inspection, take action.

If you can’t find the queen, try what I think is called a modified Snelgrove II:

Instead of leaving the queen on the original site, you move her and brood to a new site a few metres away. That means you’re splitting the queen and brood from the flying bees.

On the old site leave two frames of brood with eggs and young larvae (shake the bees into the mother’s hive so that you know the queen isn’t on either of those frames and that they’re clear of queen cells), and fill up the box with drawn comb or foundation. Add the supers.

About nine days later, destroy all queen cells on the two frames, and return the queen. You’ll probably find her easier now.

See Wally Shaw, pp17-21 here: http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

 

[Eddie_H]

yep i always take a step back have a cup of tea then look at the issue again
the BS honeybee nucs were deep enough to accept even with QCs hanging off the bottom of the frames. the correx boxes i use in emergencies are not.

if the queen is not in there they will run out of viable eggs/larvae to raise new Qs from. If she is in there you will definitely know if they try to raise Qs again. then you will have a more defined course of action.

only been at it myself for a couple of years and can only say what i have done.

I suppose I can move the best QC into a nuc.

Check hive a few days later and if there are fresh eggs, she’s obviously still in there. Then see if the QC emerges in nuc and starts laying.

If the original hive continues to make QC’s, I can do an artificial swarm at a later date.

I need to first try an artificial swarm today or the QC to nuc option at least. I just need to stop them swarming as I’m running out of time looking for THis Queen