Making Increase, different hive types

[Walrus]

I have 3 colonies on 14x12 cedar. I have 2 new poly langstroths which I would like to populate this coming season (no drawn comb/brand new hives). I know it is not easy with different hive types but I want to evaluate the polys so I have this problem to solve.

My plan is to do a shook swarm into a langstoth nuc around May time, then when it is strong transfer over to full langstroth hive. I will probably have two 14x12 colonies producing honey and the other one used for shook swarm/splits.

When I have done the shook swarm I intend to split the frames of the queenless 14x12 into 2 nucs and let them grow queens, then build up in summer/autumn.

Questions
1. Is there a better way of doing it?
2. Should I leave my 14x12 splits alone to requeen themselves or is it better to introduce QC or bought queen?

Thanks

 

[drstitson]

14x12 converters.
simple strip wood top bar and side packers, held to the frame by cable ties - take a look at the MB site for inspiration. the work fine for the change eover.

 

[Black Comb]

My thoughts.
Shook swarms work best when the colony is strong. I would shook swarm the full 14 x12 into a full l/s hive..
I have tried most of the variants of switching hive types (nat to Lang) and think SS is the easiest and quickest.

As for splitting, then walk away splits do work but it is generally recognised that better queens emerge when the bees themselves decide to expand, I.e swarm cells are better than emergency cells. If you can force one of the hives to go into swarm mode (by feeding and restricting space) then you will have a supply of queen cells to mess with.

I've tried these conversion kit things (made my own), they are a faff.

 

[Chris B]

I would use a swarm box with a bought in queen.

The procedure is something like this:

1. New queen arrives in cage.
2. Shake bees from supers (from 1 or all hives as you wish) into swarm box.
3. You want anything from 2lb to 6lb bees total, depending on your objectives
4. Suspend queen in cage in the swarm box. Make sure cage is sealed to prevent queen release.
5. Add syrup can/bottle or candy and leave swarm box in cool place 24 hours.
6. place queen cage between frames of new hive
7. shake all bees into hive, close up and feed
8. 24/48 hours later, remove tab of queen cage so bees can release her, or simply relese her yourself.

Benefit of this method is virtually guaranteed acceptance of new queen, no transfer of brood frames (insurance against disease), no need to find queen in donor colony(s), dramatically reduces swarm urge in donor colonies. There is also the opportunity of a varroa treatment on the swarm box. And no need to worry about the 3 feet/3 mile rule as the bees take on a swarm mentality and "forget" where they came from.

I use something called a Multibox as the swarm box. Google should find them for you, cost about £20 each. But you can easily make something.

 

[mbc]

I would use a swarm box with a bought in queen.

The procedure is something like this:

1. New queen arrives in cage.
2. Shake bees from supers (from 1 or all hives as you wish) into swarm box.
3. You want anything from 2lb to 6lb bees total, depending on your objectives
4. Suspend queen in cage in the swarm box. Make sure cage is sealed to prevent queen release.
5. Add syrup can/bottle or candy and leave swarm box in cool place 24 hours.
6. place queen cage between frames of new hive
7. shake all bees into hive, close up and feed
8. 24/48 hours later, remove tab of queen cage so bees can release her, or simply relese her yourself.

Benefit of this method is virtually guaranteed acceptance of new queen, no transfer of brood frames (insurance against disease), no need to find queen in donor colony(s), dramatically reduces swarm urge in donor colonies. There is also the opportunity of a varroa treatment on the swarm box. And no need to worry about the 3 feet/3 mile rule as the bees take on a swarm mentality and "forget" where they came from.

I use something called a Multibox as the swarm box. Google should find them for you, cost about £20 each. But you can easily make something.

Cracking advice Chris ! Its a good, relatively easy procedure well explained.

 

[Black Comb]

great method providing you want to buy in a queen.

Actually it is a very good method Chris, which I will use to make increase once I have some (of my own) mated queens to use.

 

[mbc]

great method providing you want to buy in a queen.

Without waiting for the original colonies to start their own cells and dictate the timing, I wouldnt want to let hives depleted of their workers raise new queens.

 

[Chris B]

great method providing you want to buy in a queen.

Actually it is a very good method Chris, which I will use to make increase once I have some (of my own) mated queens to use.

First time I saw it was that German bee vid. of the rotation system. I've adapted it only very slightly for my own purposes i.e. not releasing queen straight away as I had one abscond on me in 2011. A day or two queen confinement coupled with a feed stops that risk.
Of course it doesn't matter where the queen comes from, bought or home-reared.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

I would use a swarm box with a bought in queen.

I use something called a Multibox as the swarm box. Google should find them for you, cost about £20 each. But you can easily make something.

Looks interesting are they any uk suppliers for this couldnt find any on a quick google.

 

[Chris B]

Looks interesting are they any uk suppliers for this couldnt find any on a quick google.

I don't think any in uk unfortunately.

I bought mine from a German company Bienen Voigt & Warholz. They were at Stoneleigh in 2011. Not sure if they're going to the convention this year.
But they do have a website. Product number 11785.

 

[herefordshirehoney]

I don't think any in uk unfortunately.

I bought mine from a German company Bienen Voigt & Warholz. They were at Stoneleigh in 2011. Not sure if they're going to the convention this year.
But they do have a website. Product number 11785.

Thanks may have a look at this liked it as it looks collapsible (well apart from the sugar container).

I'm planning on an increase this year but going to take a few frames from my 2 existing colonies and put them in a swienty LS poly nuc and get them to create one, as I can't grantee when a brought in supplier could deliver. Its funny the queen supplier gives exactly the same advice as you in creating a nuc for it.

 

[Chris B]

Its funny the queen supplier gives exactly the same advice as you in creating a nuc for it.

It's the most reliable method I've used, although later in the season i.e. Aug/Sept I think I'd still go for a nucleus method, otherwise the bees have a lot to do in a short time to winter down nicely.

 

[tyke]

Not sure reading the above what process you are going to use to get QCs. Best QCs are raised in a full strength colony. It's OK to transfer sealed QCs to a nuc.

Andy

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Not sure reading the above what process you are going to use to get QCs. Best QCs are raised in a full strength colony. It's OK to transfer sealed QCs to a nuc.

Andy

My mentor hasnt told me about that part yet

 

[Chris B]

Not sure reading the above what process you are going to use to get QCs. Best QCs are raised in a full strength colony. It's OK to transfer sealed QCs to a nuc.

Andy

I would use a swarm box with a bought in queen.

Rearing your own queens is of course an option too.

 

[Hivemaker.]

First time I saw it was that German bee vid. of the rotation system.

For those who have not seen it.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKTvp1lupHY[/ame]

 

[Walrus]

Thanks all; very helpful.

I was thinking that buying in mated queens (or making my own) would push back the time of getting the shook swarm going & I thought that the quicker they were cracking on with drawing wax in a new hive the better.

But on reflection I'm not expecting honey off the new langs this season anyway, so I don't suppose it matters as much as I thought it did. Plus the longer I leave it the more bees I have to shake.

Thanks again,
Steve

 

[herefordshirehoney]

Just for the thread info noticed that paynes have these in stock in the uk now.

 

[madasafish]

http://tinyurl.com/moabjft for UK supplier.