Maisemore poly nuc winter question

[Courty]

I have two Maisemore six frame poly nucs occupied for overwinter. The bees look like they have stopped taking the syrup that is in the integral feeder, this is the one that acts as a crown board as well with a small Perspex screen and two wells for the feed. I will be lifting the feeder off in a couple of weeks to remove the apivar strip. If there is still syrup in it, am I right in thinking it is best to pour out the syrup as it will go mouldy, rather than leave it in case they feed from it later?
Also, is there any need to put a small bit of insulation over the Perspex to prevent condensation or is the roof insulation enough, despite the cavity? Does anyone put insulation in the cavity or is this overkill?
I would expect the insulation from the nuc is enough but I haven’t overwintered with them before.
thanks
Courty

 

[MuswellMetro]

i use a 50mm slab of insulation over the roof/feeder, i also use fondant rather than liquied in the feeders in winter with one of the dividers removed

 

[GuyNir]

I remove all feeders and give them fondant right on top (above a clear modified crown board). New design poly nuc roofs are very thick, don’t see a need for extra insulation.
i overwintered nucs using the old (thin) roofs in previous years without any problems either (no added insulation).

 

[Curly green finger's]

My nuc feeding has souly been fondant this autumn, I leave the feeder on and insulate the feeder with poly by removing the compartments and perspex for winter. Nuc weights from 10.8 kgs to 12.5 for winter and weigh every 2/4 weeks with luggage scales.
In your situation I would remove the feeder making sure there's no bees in it quickly remove syrup and clean the feeder, then put it back on with insulation.

I've found that maisemores poly nucs can have black mould round the edges and it's worth keeping them clean.
I've also wintered with out feeders but prefer to keep them on, it saves having to put them back on overwinter or early spring if needs must.

 

[Boston Bees]

I am not 100% sure that the feeder is meant to be treated as a crownboard to be honest. What I mean is, when you aren't using it as a feeder, I would remove it completely (at least, assuming you have one of the newer super-thick roofs). You can leave it on of course, I am just not sure what the point would be. (And yes, you should get rid of unused syrup in case it goes mouldy IMHO)

The biggest downside of the feeder is that there is no space at all between the base of the feeder and the top of the frames. So when you put the feeder on you are very likely to crush bees - possibly lots. This is one big reason I wouldn't use it as a crownboard. When I want to feed syrup I get round this issue with a bodge using blue-tac at the corners.

I have tried putting fondant in the feeder but found it tricky - I think bees should always approach fondant from below rather than being allowed to approach it from the side or above, to avoid the risk of the bees getting stuck in the fondant as it "slumps" sideways as it warms up.

What I do in winter (or indeed any time of the year) is cut a hole in the perspex sheet and put in a block of fondant on top of it. The block is just tall enough to mostly fill the void in the roof space. But if you don't feed fondant I wouldn't worry about the void - there's a thick layer of poly above it so it won't become a cold-air space.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Never had an issue with bees being crushed under the feeder, or under the roof for that matter, I suppose it depends whether you gently replace it (bees will quickly get out of the way) or just slam it down - there is actually a few mm (3 or 4 IIRC) space there.
I always over winter a handful of nucs as is (no extension box on top) and, as long as they are well fed in the autumn I've yet to have to feed them fondant later on, in fact I usually find myself removing a frame, sometimes two of leftover stores in spring and replacing with drawn comb or foundation to give them space for brood.
I always leave the feeders on over winter for the additional insulation, if there's any syrup left, I leave it there rather than break the propolis seal and have yet to experience the syrup going mouldy later. Never seen condensation in the feeding well either.

 

[robmort]

I modified my brood box to give a bee space above the frames by glueing a strip of pvc around the outer rim, still leaving a locating lip.

 

[North End Bees]

I have tried putting fondant in the feeder but found it tricky - I think bees should always approach fondant from below rather than being allowed to approach it from the side or above, to avoid the risk of the bees getting stuck in the fondant as it "slumps" sideways as it warms up.

The bees do access it from below if you remove one of the dividers and place the fondant directly over the access slot.
I leave the other divider in place with an offcut of kingspan in that side.

 

[Boston Bees]

I modified my brood box to give a bee space above the frames by glueing a strip of pvc around the outer rim, still leaving a locating lip.

Interesting idea - thanks.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I modified my brood box to give a bee space above the frames by glueing a strip of pvc around the outer rim, still leaving a locating lip.

That’s what I’ve done with all my poly hives nucs and 14x12s to give too space.

 

[derekm]

25mm PIR insulation blocking the mesh + 50mm PIR over the entrance with 20mm dia hole.

 

[North End Bees]

25mm PIR insulation blocking the mesh + 50mm PIR over the entrance with 20mm dia hole.

I leave the mesh open all winter and just reduce entrance spinner to 1 beespace.

 

[derekm]

The limitation to heat retention in most full size poly hives is the comb to varroa slot distance. In a nuc this is even more an issue. ( From unpublished CFD studies)

 

[North End Bees]

The limitation to heat retention in most full size poly hives is the comb to varroa slot distance. In a nuc this is even more an issue. ( From unpublished CFD studies)

Well, I don't know about those particular studies. I've not lost a nuc over winter and always leave the mesh floor open.

 

[GuyNir]

Well, I don't know about those particular studies. I've not lost a nuc over winter and always leave the mesh floor open.

Same here. It doesn’t mean though keeping it open is better.

 

[North End Bees]

25mm PIR insulation blocking the mesh + 50mm PIR over the entrance with 20mm dia hole.

Surely leaving a 20mm diameter entrance on a nuc is inviting mice?

 

[Curly green finger's]

X

 

[derekm]

Surely leaving a 20mm diameter entrance on a nuc is inviting mice?

Not if the entrance is long (knot hole in tree like), insulated and the nest is well insulated and the nest is well off the ground... its worked for millions of years.

 

[North End Bees]

Not if the entrance is long (knot hole in treel like), insulated and the nest is well insulated and the nest is well off the ground... its worked for millions of years.

That's ok if your nuc side wall is as thick as a trunk and you site it several metres up a tree!

 

[derekm]

I only got mice in my well insulated by artificial trees with ~25mm dia x100mm long entrances when the bees gave up. Even then the mice stayed at bottom feeder. Entrance only 300mm off ground. Bees in residence no mice. Stick two pieces of of 50mm foam together to make the entrance tunnel 100mm long.