Lost my last hive

[Do224]

As many of you know I lost three small colonies at the start of winter, leaving me with one good sized hive on brood and a half.

This hive has been flying the nice days so I was a bit surprised to open them up today to find no queen, no brood, nor eggs or larvae. No sign of queen cells either…

Probably a few hundred bees left.

I presume there’s nothing I can do to save them as there’s not that many and I guess they’re winter bees so will die soon. So not worth trying to buy and introduce a queen?

Any and all thoughts welcome…not too sure what’s happened.

Gutted to be back to square one yet again but I guess it’s all part of learning. I’m not in a position to be buying bees so will be crossing my fingers for the swarm traps again…

 

[madasafish]

? Varroa treatment
What year was Q?
WInter stores?

Sounds like Q died, but with no other information, just guessing.
Pictures?

 

[Boston Bees]

Sorry to hear that

No, definitely not worth adding a queen. As said, when they dwindle to nothing, put some photos on if you want an autopsy.

Get them set up as swarm traps with that lovely brown comb and I think you will get lucky.

 

[Do224]

? Varroa treatment
What year was Q?
WInter stores?

Sounds like Q died, but with no other information, just guessing.
Pictures?

Vaped 3 times in January.

Not sure the age of the queen. Prime swarm caught early last June. She was laying very well last summer…pretty much full frames.

Plenty stores in the hive I think. Most frames had some stores and some frames were full of stores.

No dead bees on floor of hive.

 

[pargyle]

Vaped 3 times in January.

Not sure the age of the queen. Prime swarm caught early last June. She was laying very well last summer…pretty much full frames.

Plenty stores in the hive I think. Most frames had some stores and some frames were full of stores.

No dead bees on floor of hive.

It's sad but it happens. Don't beat yourself up - some colonies appear destined to die out no matter what you do.

I'd put money on a late season failure of the queen and they went into winter without enough winter bees. It seems to be happening more and more these days .... queen failure when it's too late for them to replace or they don't recognise the problem. Those last few inspections of the season are really crtical - if you see a poor showing of brood it's the time to seriously consider combining colonies and squishing the queens that are not working hard enough. Few dead bees is a classic colony dwindle.

It's also too late in January to do varroa treatments - if they were loaded with varroa late in the previous season then it's only a matter of time. You need strong. healthy, colonies going into winter - one big strong hive with a queen laying like it's her last is far better than three weak colonies - even if it means queens that are still viable going to the gatepost.

 

[Do224]

It's sad but it happens. Don't beat yourself up - some colonies appear destined to die out no matter what you do.

I'd put money on a late season failure of the queen and they went into winter without enough winter bees. It seems to be happening more and more these days .... queen failure when it's too late for them to replace or they don't recognise the problem. Those last few inspections of the season are really crtical - if you see a poor showing of brood it's the time to seriously consider combining colonies and squishing the queens that are not working hard enough. Few dead bees is a classic colony dwindle.

It's also too late in January to do varroa treatments - if they were loaded with varroa late in the previous season then it's only a matter of time. You need strong. healthy, colonies going into winter - one big strong hive with a queen laying like it's her last is far better than three weak colonies - even if it means queens that are still viable going to the gatepost.

The thing I can’t understand is why there are no queen cells…I thought the bees always made them if something happens to their queen

I think you may be right about a late season queen failure last year…although there was lots of activity at New Year which looked like newly emerged bees orientating

 

[pargyle]

The thing I can’t understand is why there are no queen cells…I thought the bees always made them if something happens to their queen

I think you may be right about a late season queen failure last year…although there was lots of activity at New Year which looked like newly emerged bees orientating

They are bees ... most of the time they know what they are doing but sometimes they get fooled. When a queen starts to fail they usually recognise the problem and seek to supercede but if the queen was laying well and either just stopped laying whilst her pheremones were still strong they may have been lulled into thinking all was well until ... there were no larvae to create queen cells from.

 

[RichardK]

That Dave is a bummer. Neither of us have fared too well over winter have we!?

How many bait hives do you have?

 

[Do224]

Yeah it’s been a steep learning curve.

I’ve put two bait hives up in the locations that worked best last year

 

[Erichalfbee]

if you see a poor showing of brood it's the time to seriously consider combining colonies and squishing the queens that are not working hard enough.

I have one planned for tomorrow

 

[gwt_uk]

As many of you know I lost three small colonies at the start of winter, leaving me with one good sized hive on brood and a half.

This hive has been flying the nice days so I was a bit surprised to open them up today to find no queen, no brood, nor eggs or larvae. No sign of queen cells either…

Probably a few hundred bees left.

I presume there’s nothing I can do to save them as there’s not that many and I guess they’re winter bees so will die soon. So not worth trying to buy and introduce a queen?

Any and all thoughts welcome…not too sure what’s happened.

Gutted to be back to square one yet again but I guess it’s all part of learning. I’m not in a position to be buying bees so will be crossing my fingers for the swarm traps again…

very sorry to hear that. Hope you are successful in catching a swarm.

 

[Antipodes]

The thing I can’t understand is why there are no queen cells…I thought the bees always made them if something happens to their queen

I think you may be right about a late season queen failure last year…although there was lots of activity at New Year which looked like newly emerged bees orientating

I think I may have intercepted a similar situation unfolding here, except I'm hoping I can save them. Prime swarm in November (May) which built up to 4 of my boxes (about the size of two deep Langstroth boxes). Lovely queen who produced many bees resulting in a great colony and my best swarm capture. Fantastic nectar collectors. They are in an out apiary and I'd left them alone for a while. Inspecting last week, the queen has gone and no virgin. There was just the vague outline of a couple of long gone queen cells on one frame and some yet to emerge workers. I've given them a frame with some eggs to see how they go.
Those remnant queen cells were quite hard to spot. Those newly emerging bees could have been from her last hurrah?

 

[blackcloud]

There's nothing like that still empty silence when opening up a box to ruin your week.
It's like jury service -only the wicked can ever escape it.
Dust yourself down and get back on your bicycle - the season is only just beginning.

 

[The Poot]

The thing I can’t understand is why there are no queen cells…I thought the bees always made them if something happens to their queen

I think you may be right about a late season queen failure last year…although there was lots of activity at New Year which looked like newly emerged bees orientating

I’ve had the same happen to one of the two I elected to go into Winter with - after reducing down from four. Queen cell found open on September 16th - the only one, so assumed supercedure and left them to it. The colony appeared all good until around Feb and then dwindled. I shook out the remaining bees last month.
Keep smiling, as Pargyle says, it happens. I hope you get your swarms and good luck. Perhaps someone local to you on the forum might be able to supply you with some bees?

 

[Do224]

I had another look at this hive today. There’s quite a lot more bees than I thought. Maybe 4 or 5 brood frames worth. Should I just let them dwindle or should I be shaking them out?

 

[RichardK]

Could you get a frame of eggs / open brood from the other guy at the apiary? If so you could try a last ditch attempt at saving them as I had to do (which is looking very positive).

I followed the process detailed here:
The Apiarist website

 

[Erichalfbee]

Stick in a test frame.
borrow a few cells cut out with a biscuit cutter if needs be from your neighbour.

 

[Do224]

Don’t really feel as though I can ask the other guy…he’s not really the sharing type unfortunately. Also if the hive has been queenless for a while I guess the existing bees are getting towards the end of their life. Would they have time to make a new queen from eggs?

Could I buy and introduce a mated queen?

If it turns out they’re doomed…I was wondering if I should shake them out? If not is there a risk of the workers starting to lay and ruining the frames?

 

[Boston Bees]

If it turns out they’re doomed…I was wondering if I should shake them out? If not is there a risk of the workers starting to lay and ruining the frames?

Problem is - shake them out to do what? If you have 5 frames of bees, that's quite a lot. They could make themselves quite a nuisance to some unsuspecting nearby homeowner. Either that or they will cluster pathetically on an object near where their old hive was and you will have to look at them for days, feeling bad.

 

[RichardK]

There's a fair bet that if you do nothing you'll end up with laying workers & ruined comb. I'd just shake them out & move on. I believe there are other hives at the apiary(?), & if not, they're in the middle if a forest aren't they?