Looks like i upset them!

[Oakbear]

After patiently waiting 3 weeks for my virgin following an AS to complete her flight and start laying, i thought i'd have a peek this afternoon.
As usual they were lovely, but no sign of queen and no eggs. All old brood had hatched.
Numbers appeared to have dwindled somewhat, but tons of pollen and nectar was being stored.
I found most of the Q cell i had left, part broken down.

I went home and had a think, and either it was a dud cell, or i missed her and she's not mated/returned/started laying. So i thought i'd good back this evening and transfer a test frame.

Thought i'd be quick, so didn't smoke. I opened up and they roared up at me! I had pings from all over and my veil had a good covering. I think i picked up about a dozen stings, and the suit is full of ones which didn't get through.
I admit to chickening and closing straight up again!

I think i'll try Thursday to put a test frame in if the weather's good, and maybe buy a new queen if any scrub is not too hot.

Any thoughts and advice much appreciated!

Was it because i'd disturbed them earlier? Time of day ? Lack of smoke?

Any indicator as to being Q-?

Thank you!

 

[Poly Hive]

How old was the cell you left in when you did the AS?

PH

 

[isc26]

I'm not sure if this helps but have had similar experience.

I did A/S on my two in early may but unfortunately 1 queen absconded shortly after. Whilst both the new colonies have just started laying the one that lost its queen still has no eggs unusually and was in a major strop today unlike all the other colonies. Up until now whilst no sign of a queen have always been gentle.


I have a strong feeling there is a queen in there but not yet mated and it sounds like temper can become an issue until mating has occured. I too was getting concerned with the other splits about lack of laying but glad I waited several weeks longer than I expected & thankfully things have started to come right.

Like you I don't always use smoke, but sometime a water spray to calm things down. I've never tried a test frame but would be interested in the outcome?

Have you considered the fact that it was your second time into the hive that day may have been a factor?

 

[susbees]

I did the same as you...checked through a commercial today. They were edgy last week with some polished cells (I pulled the queen so I know she ought to be there somewhere) but today loads of stores and polished cells and edgier, flying off the frames. Minimal smoke.

Further down the apiary around three hours later found a suitable test frame. Took off super with crown board. Covered QE with tea towel and slid it gently sideways. Stuck in test frame three along. They hardly noticed. Cover cloths have their uses.

But did take three or four to the back of my bare hand topping up an AS feeder towards dusk. Sigh.....

 

[Midland Beek]

A queen that isn't actually laying eggs is rarely very findable.

You can usually spot queenlessness through bad temper.

And don't forget the smoke next time.

 

[Oakbear]

Thanks for the advice and info folks.

I had assumed they were Q+ despite lack of eggs on inspection as if they'd been Q- for a few weeks they'd have been evil from the off. I wouldn't have needed even a veil first time. Now i'm not sure, but we'll see!

susbees -When i sort the test frame i think i'll try a cloth for the first time!

....And smoke, and a spray bottle of rainwater with a drop of sugar, just in case!

Poly Hive - The queen cell was sealed (the only one out of a 8 or 9 which were mostly about to be capped), and hadn't been evident on inspection 8 days prior.

The AS'd colony with the old marked queen is going great guns (i've never seen such a big brood nest waiting to emerge!).

Anyway, thanks again, and any more advice gratefully received!

 

[Flatters]

Oakbear
What did the empty comb look like. I thought I was Q- after a AS but weather was poor. I stayed patient because the empty comb was beautifully polished and shiny. This I believe is a sign they are being prepared to be laid in. Two weeks later I checked and she had started laying.

 

[whizzwheels]

I did an AS at the beginning of May on my hive splitting it into three and both the new queens have taken 6 weeks until they started laying, so it's worth being patient.

 

[Oakbear]

Oh good point Flatters. The cells were clean and ready, but stores dotted around in it, with no clear area for brood made ready. Outside of frames had stores as normal.

whizzwheels - That's reassuring thanks.

I think a frame of brood might be helpful anyway, so i'll see!

 

[drstitson]

you may need to wait at least a month (maybe 6 weeks) after queen emerging (ie 5-7 weeks after AS) for her to start laying.

 

[enrico]

We have all said it a thousand times, please be patient. The bees will NOT do it by the book and the weather this year has been so peculiar that Queens are delaying mating and laying and can take weeks. I also reiterate, why go into an angry hive unless there is an absolute need? They don't want you in there so leave them for a while. They are amazing creatures and they want to survive so they will do everything they can to rear a Queen until there are no more options left. Three weeks means they still have loads of options.
You will probably think this is no help at all but read through other threads. Patience is a real virtue in this game!
e

 

[Flatters]

This may be a useful thread for you:-
http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=11176

 

[Oakbear]

Thanks again.

Flatters - i had read that thread, but gave it a re-read ta.

I had thought i was being patient, especially seeing as we had a few cracking days after she should have emerged. Clearly not!

enrico - I may be being dim, but what options are there to raise a queen if they are Q- with no brood?

OK maybe i can risk another week for a peek and test frame......