Laying Worker Hive. To keep or not to Keep?

[Des]

Hello, (From John in South Wales, UK)
What is the best way to resolve a laying worker hive at this time in the season? Is it worth saving the worker bees by newspaper joining above with a NUC or bolstering up the NUC to form a new hive from a another hive with eggs and and larvae and letting the worker hive meet its natural end over winter as frames are slowly taken out and the hive cleared of drones as the bees die off for reuse in the spring?

 

[Des]

Sorry typo. Keep not Kerep!

 

[Patrick1]

Hello, (From John in South Wales, UK)
What is the best way to resolve a laying worker hive at this time in the season? Is it worth saving the worker bees by newspaper joining above with a NUC or bolstering up the NUC to form a new hive from a another hive with eggs and and larvae and letting the worker hive meet its natural end over winter as frames are slowly taken out and the hive cleared of drones as the bees die off for reuse in the spring?

The only way I have ever salvaged anything from a laying worker colonies is to shake it out as far away as possible ( 50yrds ish ) not much else seems to work for me.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Trouble with trying to unite a hive of laying workers with a queenright colony is that, unless the Q+ colony is very strong the laying workers won't accept the new queen and kill her - you are then totally goosed.
My advice would be to shake out the LW colony a few yards away from the other hives and leave them beg their way into the other hives.

 

[Des]

Thanks! Is it possible that shaken out laying workers could potentially fly into an adjacent weak nuc or hive and kill the resident queen? In which case, should laying workers ideally be shaken out as far as possible from the apairy in the first instance and have the hive dismantled ? It appears it is not worth rejuvenating a LW hive. Cest la vie!

 

[pargyle]

Thanks! Is it possible that shaken out laying workers could potentially fly into an adjacent weak nuc or hive and kill the resident queen? In which case, should laying workers ideally be shaken out as far as possible from the apairy in the first instance and have the hive dismantled ? It appears it is not worth rejuvenating a LW hive. Cest la vie!

No ...but you do have to remove all the kit from the original site or they will go back to it. A few yards away as JBM suggests ..they will all then fly back to where their previous hive was, find it's not there, mill around for a bit and then beg their way into one or more of the nearest colonies. It happens reasonably gradually so they don't swamp the colony they are joining - it's not like a swarm descending. The colonies they are going to benefit from the increased numbers of bees ... bees that are otherwise doomed and of no use. You can use any frames of stores from the LWH to provide stores for colonies going into winter or for Nuc starting in spring if you store them.

 

[Des]

Many thanks for a clear resolution to the problem!

 

[Boston Bees]

In which case, should laying workers ideally be shaken out as far as possible from the apairy in the first instance and have the hive dismantled ?

Lots of good advice above, but just to be clear, if shaking out, do this close to your own apiary. Couple of hundred metres max, but a few metres is plenty. What you can't do is shake them out so far from your own apiary that the bees end up going into someone else's apiary.

I mention this only because there have been a couple of mentions of "as far as possible" in this thread, and that might lead a reader to think that shaking them out a few miles away is a good idea, and that's definitely a forbidden practice

 

[Turls2201]

you can use any frames of stores from the LWH to provide stores for colonies going into winter or for Nuc starting in spring if you store them.

I too have a dying hive and am going to shake out-do you do anything to prevent disease or other nasties in frames - I have read putting in a freezer, but does that kill off everything? I also read a lot of people just cut the wax out and re-frame.

How best to store the frames?

Ian

 

[pargyle]

I too have a dying hive and am going to shake out-do you do anything to prevent disease or other nasties in frames - I have read putting in a freezer, but does that kill off everything? I also read a lot of people just cut the wax out and re-frame.

How best to store the frames?

Ian

Why are they dying out is the question you need to answer first ... if they are just dwindling because of queen problems there's no problem .. if there is a disease problem (one of the brood diseases or nosema for instance) then that's a different ball game.

You can store brood frames in any sealed box - you don't need to freeze them - although you need to be aware of wax moth ... freezing the frames will reduce the chance of wax moth damage but I prefer to use Dipel which works very well. Obviously any boxes you store frames in needs to be rodent proof - mice and rats love wax.

 

[Turls2201]

Two swarms, and then a lost queen/drone layer/drone laying workers, even though we know there was one in there originally. A strange hive and long tale.

My question is really geared around what happens as it dies, especially around disease etc. Do not want to use frames again if they may have issues. Am almost certain there is no disease but seen open brood, uncapping and dead larvae (all of drones) but am sure these are all just symptoms of the dwindling hive.

Ian

Ps new beek with tendancy to worry and over react

 

[pargyle]

Two swarms, and then a lost queen/drone layer/drone laying workers, even though we know there was one in there originally. A strange hive and long tale.

My question is really geared around what happens as it dies, especially around disease etc. Do not want to use frames again if they may have issues. Am almost certain there is no disease but seen open brood, uncapping and dead larvae (all of drones) but am sure these are all just symptoms of the dwindling hive.

Ian

Ps new beek with tendancy to worry and over react

There's been a lot of similar instances this year .. had you checked the colony for varroa ? What you describe are the symptoms of a dwindling colony ... I would not be too worried about re-using the frames - drawn brood frames are a very valulable resource for a beekeeper.

We all worry and it takes a lot of self control NOT to over react or indeed act in haste ... it's not a trait confined to new beekeepers.

 

[ericbeaumont]

what happens as it dies, especially around disease etc. Am almost certain there is no disease but seen open brood, uncapping and dead larvae (all of drones)

A dwindling and disordered colony is liable to predation by wasps or robber honey bees; the former are just coming into action around beehives; the latter may bring disease into your apiary or take it to another.

A consequence of dwindling is stress, which will increase the risk of disease breaking out. Don't wait for further dwindling: shake them out asap.

 

[Turls2201]

Thanks all - great to have this forum for newbies

drawn brood frames are a very valuable resource for a beekeeper.

Unfortunately a lot is now peppered drone comb...

Don't wait for further dwindling: shake them out asap.

will get onto this as soon as I can.

 

[pargyle]

Thanks all - great to have this forum for newbies

Unfortunately a lot is now peppered drone comb...

You can't stop them building drone comb ... if it is large swathes of it you can always scrape those areas back to the spine and they will rebuild it as they wish or just leave it as is.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Unfortunately a lot is now peppered drone comb...

No, with laying workers (same as with a DLQ) you will have drones eggs being laid in worker cells - they'll sort it out no worries