Latest snake-oil varroa treatment pretending not to be a varroa treatment

[mbc]

Who is going to pay to licence them?

Crowd funding?
Association's step up to the plate? Universities?
Tricky to get central funding for anything thats seen as "anti-business" with current attitudes prevailing.

 

[Wilco]

Crowd funding?
Association's step up to the plate? Universities?
Tricky to get central funding for anything thats seen as "anti-business" with current attitudes prevailing.

Realistically it's a few tens of thousands in research and peer reviewed studies, application dossier, a niche market containing plenty of individuals happy to make their own generic version which reduces sales plus other competing products and the inevitable 'the licenced version is so expensive' argument.

It's probably just not seen as worth the effort for the level of return, or the data suggests it's not efficacious enough to pass licencing.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Crowd funding?
Association's step up to the plate? Universities?
Tricky to get central funding for anything thats seen as "anti-business" with current attitudes prevailing.

Well I’d chip in

 

[Mint Bee]

Realistically it's a few tens of thousands in research and peer reviewed studies, application dossier, a niche market containing plenty of individuals happy to make their own generic version which reduces sales plus other competing products and the inevitable 'the licenced version is so expensive' argument.

It's probably just not seen as worth the effort for the level of return, or the data suggests it's not efficacious enough to pass licencing.

costs a bit more than that. application fee is best part of £20k itself and unless someone writes the dossier for free, even a simple one is going to cost you upwards of £100k to author, once you have the research data. Once you have the labels, packaging and a few other essentials done, probably looking at £200k for a product that Joe Bloggs can knock up on the cheep. if you got a license then there are a lot of on-going commitments to maintain the license which cost as well. its the same argument as why no one has bothered licensing simple pure OA for sublimation and we have the ludicrous situation in the UK

 

[linoleum bonypart]

Just thinking why doesn’t BBKA have a research arm

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just thinking why doesn’t BBKA have a research arm

Because it’s ‘armless?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Crowd funding?
Association's step up to the plate? Universities?
Tricky to get central funding for anything thats seen as "anti-business" with current attitudes prevailing.

Well I’d chip in

Sound like an ideal opportunity for the BBKA to step forward for the sake of all beekeepers

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Because it’s ‘armless?

more like witless

 

[Micklemus81]

Who is going to pay to licence them?

Dear Dani I don't think I can cope with some of the subscribers on this forum because it is immediately obvious that some who are very abrasive , will not budge when it is proven that certain practices are doing the bees good.
It pays to be wary when a few fire warning shots at subscribers on this site and of course other sites. It's best to ignore these 'subscribers' by not answering them.....

Some beekeeper and especially so in the States have had good results by following Randy Oliver's methods. I hope you are successful in seeing that he is correct in saying that ='quote' It is possible to arrive at the situation where all the mites are killed or made to dwindle away by the admin of the oxalic acid and glycerine on absorbent material.
It is thought that the method prevents breeding mites & so they perish eventually.
Because some are set on the Fumigation technique which does kill mites there is no doubt about that they may well be averse to trying the extended release method thinking as I did that surely the gas effect of the oxalic acid gets onto every mortal thing within the hive but does it? I think not and I believe that there are surfaces that the fumes do not get onto and therefore may cause that method to be not as efficient as the 'applicator' desires such as that researcher Cameron Jack.
It is surprising to me that Kaymon Reynolds who has hundreds of hives is still using a new vaporiser & yet he interviewed Cameron Jack a short while ago.
I would have thought the strips involve less work in total.
I think I said it before and another person has said it on here that it seems strange that anyone can spray oxalic acid directly onto bees but may not (because of the law/rules) administer the same chemical on an absorbent 'strip'.
Many of the directives we have to abide by, are faintly ridiculous and I think as do many others that the issue re oxalic acid that has been proven to kill mites should be confined to a certain way of getting that acid onto mites.

I am taking notes re the humidity within the hive to see if indeed Dr Berry's statement that she says humidity causes the strip method to fail.
I see Randy Oliver is paying close attention to that also because he is interested in proving why it seems the strips work for some but not for her.
Best wishes in you endeavours.

 

[Micklemus81]

It's a good thing you don't write rubbish like that about specific UK cases as the ensuring libel cases would bankrupt you. But the forum would never let them stand so your are well protected from your own ignorance/prejudices.

Are you saying I'm ignorant. If you are then that wiould confirm absolutely that this and any other forum is nothing short of useless because forums are supposed to be beneficial -aren't they?.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I see Randy Oliver is paying close attention to that also because he is interested in proving why it seems the strips work for some but not for her.

Him
Edit. Her, you’re right. Thanks @Wilco for correcting me.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Dear Dani I don't think I can cope with some of the subscribers on this forum

There is an ignore button for that very purpose. If you put a poster on ignore then you won’t see their posts

Nothing will kill ALL the mites.
The situation in the U.K. is that it is illegal to use shop towels/ strips. It IS legal to vape Apibioxal.
There’s no point in arguing about it.

 

[madasafish]

Are you saying I'm ignorant. If you are then that wiould confirm absolutely that this and any other forum is nothing short of useless because forums are supposed to be beneficial -aren't they?.

Are you saying I'm ignorant. If you are then that wiould confirm absolutely that this and any other forum is nothing short of useless because forums are supposed to be beneficial -aren't they?.

Anyone who writes "However all doctors cannot be relied upon to make that life or death decision because it's money that influences their decisions now when it definitely should not be the case, should it?" deserves whatever stick they get.

If you don't want to be thought of as stupid, don't write rubbish

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Does attacking and insulting anyone who doesn't agree with them or offers a different opinion and just banging on about one method (illegal or not) of treating mites without even exploring or mentioning other just as effective methods not demonstrate the height of ignorance?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Ok folks. Can we just leave it there. @Micklemus81 I have doubted your intentions for quite a while but let you have your say. Now it’s time to leave this thread alone. If you continue to agitate and disrupt here I shall simply exclude you from the forum for a short time while you think about it

 

[Rory Fields]

It’s so tempting to try isn’t it? Just replace the strips every six weeks.

I saw you'd trialled this last year Dani but found similarly low counts on two other colonies without strips - I wondered if you'd experimented with the Abelo oxalic strips this year any more? I'm tempted to try them in some of my less easily sublimated kit, cheers ,Ror

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Rory
No I didn’t. The colonies had a vape in the spring and just the once when splits were broodless.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I am taking notes re the humidity within the hive to see if indeed Dr Berry's statement that she says humidity causes the strip method to fail.
I see Randy Oliver is paying close attention to that also because he is interested in proving why it seems the strips work for some but not for her.
Best wishes in you endeavours.

I'd have to search out Derek Mitchell's research file from previous years when humidity levels in insulated hives were found to influence varroa populations. Maybe there's more study of the inter relationship between humidity and OA strip treatment required?

 

[Swarm]

 

[Erichalfbee]

33 minutes in
Can you select for bees that cope with varroa on their own whilst still treating?