Late season supersedure

[Levitt53]

This is not a situation I’m going through I’m just trying to learn. When colonies supersede late in the season and have the new queen and the old at the same time I’m curious at what point the new queen gets mated and when do they kill the old queen. Does the new queen mate late in the year or early in spring? I assume the old queen isn’t bumped off until the bees are happy the new one is laying well. When a late supersedure happens are you likely to find two laying queens in the spring?

Thanks.

 

[SteveG]

In the situation at the moment. The Superseder queen cell has just hatched while the old blue queen continues to lay eggs and looks well. My other hives still with drones so good chance the new queen will mate. The rest is up to the bees. I'm told the mum and daughter could happily live through the winter together. lets see.. Only my 2nd year, told by year 30 should get easier..

 

[Millet]

This is not a situation I’m going through I’m just trying to learn. When colonies supersede late in the season and have the new queen and the old at the same time I’m curious at what point the new queen gets mated and when do they kill the old queen. Does the new queen mate late in the year or early in spring? I assume the old queen isn’t bumped off until the bees are happy the new one is laying well. When a late supersedure happens are you likely to find two laying queens in the spring?

Thanks.

The newly emerged virgin will usually hunt down and kill any other Queen in the colony (but not always) ..
The Virgin Queen has roughly 4/5wks till it is too late to get mated.. if she does not get mated she will be a useless drone laying Queen..

 

[beeno]

Perfect supersedure both queens lay together. Imperfect the old queen dies before the new queen starts laying. Books talks of Aug supersedure as being advantageous. Late Aug. Sept. may be a problem with mating as I found out last year!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The newly emerged virgin will usually hunt down and kill any other Queen in the colony (but not always) ..
.

.... not often

Have quite a few late season supersedures - new queen gets mated ASAP, both queens live together until late spring.
Had one this year where mother and daughter lived together until August - to be superseded by the granddaughter!

 

[Ian123]

A few years ago I found 3 queens in 1 hive am sure mother and daughter are there way more than we suspect as once you’ve found 1 queen you often take your eye off the ball

 

[SDM]

Do they have no mechanism for bumping off an unnamed queen in preference for the mother?
It's always seemed like a major flaw in the process if the daughter ends up queen mated or not.

 

[Ian123]

Do they have no mechanism for bumping off an unnamed queen in preference for the mother?
It's always seemed like a major flaw in the process if the daughter ends up queen mated or not.

Ok thats a bit jumbled but the whole idea is the daughter ends up as queen why is that a flaw

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

it isn't - the mother stays until the daughter has mated and proven fertile - if the daughter fails to mate - she's dead.

 

[jeff33]

I hope you are right JB, I have a hive going through it atm and the new queen not expected to emerge until the 12-14th. She will be pushing it to mate successfully.

 

[Ian123]

it isn't - the mother stays until the daughter has mated and proven fertile - if the daughter fails to mate - she's dead.

Agreed that’s why was asking why the guy was saying it’s a flaw

 

[SDM]

it isn't - the mother stays until the daughter has mated and proven fertile - if the daughter fails to mate - she's dead.

Almost certainly not the case for one of mine this spring both had been seen in September but only the mother laying. Come spring Drone laying daughter present. Clipped sub 1yr old mother toast. I doubt there was even a problem with the mother , lots of mine attempt supersedure when a flow ends, they seem to blame the mother for reduction in laying.
I was under the impression that mated or not, once they're both laying and meet on the same frame it's game over for one of them.

 

[Levitt53]

Thanks for all your replies. I have one 2017 queen and two from this year so was just wondering. I learnt how to spot queens this year - finally. I’ll be in a better position to understand what is going on in spring.