Knight of the long stingers

[MartinL]

I have a particularly nasty hive.

I've always had abit of a soft spot for them as they seem to battle on through everything that's thrown at them, (never any issues with wasps) + they keep the kids off my soft fruit on the allotment.

However, here's the twist.
Inspection aborted today, gave them a puff of smoke /& left smoker@2' from the entrance for the main guard bees to attack it as I used the diversion to poke about inside.

Usual defensive bombing veil & stinging of double gloved hands.
but by the time I'd got 2nd frame out the box the stings were getting home through my suit, arms & one on the knuckle. Final straw was sting to my chin. withdrew to check in the shed window, then banger it all back together rapidly taking another 2 stings through suit!

They must have superseded with some long sting genes as (although previously very defensive) they've rarely stung through so much PPE with such ease!

Time (while (S.H.M.B.O. is otherwise distracted) to invest in a bomb-proof suit.

Any suggestions/ recommendations gratefully received?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Decorate the nearest fence post with the queen and get a new one - cheaper than these gimicky suits

 

[Anduril]

How many hives do you have in that apiary? If a few swop it with another one to remove foragers, then inspect in virtual safety and requeen. Otherwise move to another apiary and follow above procedure.
Petrol treatment is a last resort and I have never done it.
Leave a frame of bias from a nice hive for the foragers to draw queen cells after moving original hive to another site. Split the hive into nucs and requeen.

 

[Angry_Mob]

Oz armour always gets a good recommendation on here, comes from Australia so a bit of a wait.

Friend of mine bought the Sentinel Pro II which she is very pleased with and I've seen other positive feedback on it. https://www.oldcastlefarmhives.com/product-category/clothing/ She said the owner rang her after she placed her order to check sizing, veil etc which she particularly liked.

 

[philipm]

Soft spot or not consider if a child or adult on the allotment got very badly stung how would you feel? I don't think others on the plot would be very happy either. Move the hive until it has been requeened and settled down.I don't think it's fair for others to have to put up with angry bees.

 

[coffindodger]

I have a 'triple-layer suit'. It is good and I've never been stung through it, although usually I have lots of clothing underneath. It really does help prevent overheating in the sunshine.
The veil is a problem as it easily pushes back against the face so nose and chin take a hammering. Sometimes I wear a second veil (ancient BeeFarmer) underneath, but usually something around chin and a peaked cap.
One problem is that it gets dirty very quickly. A second problem is that bees can get stuck on it (careful when taking off on your own) The real problem is that it catches on everything. Try to push open the gate, dive under a branch - you're hooked.
For all its problems it is the best suit I've ever had.
Gloves? I wear thick neoprene over kevlar thin gloves with gauntlet sleeves - don't laugh, the kevlar are very good. Usual Marigolds and the like soon get a tear and then the evil ones have a party (last night I drove home wearing the full suit after helping with a nasty hive and the creatures found a quarter inch tear in one finger Grrr).

 

[Ian123]

Sorry but you should not have bees like that on an alloment simple!!!!! least of all brag about it.

 

[Murox]

I believe their stinger is around 3mm long, perfectly capable of piercing most fabrics and the barb gets caught so it can potentially give you a second prick.

 

[Millet]

Sorry but you should not have bees like that on an alloment simple!!!!! least of all brag about it.

 

[MartinL]

Decorate the nearest fence post with the queen and get a new one - cheaper than these gimicky suits

That's become the intended outcome, once I can get near her without being beaten into submission. Thing is that whilst they've always been crotchety, in the past the stings have just been in my PPE not me!
Advice on better PPE should enable me to complete the process.

Soft spot or not consider if a child or adult on the allotment got very badly stung how would you feel?

If they were close enough to disturb the bees then they'd be on MY allotment, presumably scrumping and therefore due the consequences.
Probably straying-Townie ramblers anyway!

you should not have bees like that on an alloment simple!!!!!

We're not in the Town.
All the allotment keepers are happy with the bees, 100%.
How would you propose we pollinate the crops without them?

 

[Murox]

Launder your PPE - the smell of stings attracts more.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

That's become the intended outcome, once I can get near her without being beaten into submission. Thing is that whilst they've always been crotchety, in the past the stings have just been in my PPE not me!
Advice on better PPE should enable me to complete the process.

I think better advice has already been given - move the problem hive a few yards away and leave an empty brood box in it's place, wait an hour, all the flying (more aggressive) bees will be at the old location leaving the queen and nurse bees in a much depleted hive, deal with the queen, put hive back.

 

[Antipodes]

OZ Armour say, "no chance of a sting", as the 3 layers of their suit are a combined 4mm.

I don't have one, but it is an impressive claim.

I use a Kiwi suit which is a good old fashioned high thread count material and haven't been stung through it.....yet.

Probably agree with others about solutions for the colony however ........

 

[Antipodes]

https://www.beekeepinggear.com.au/collections/protective-clothing

Actually, I retract my previous post. OZ Armour don't make that claim of no chance of a sting, but the shop in the link above does. They also claim it is "sting proof".

Oz Armour say, "can significantly reduce the chances of stings".

https://ozarmour.co/

 

[philipm]

That's become the intended outcome, once I can get near her without being beaten into submission. Thing is that whilst they've always been crotchety, in the past the stings have just been in my PPE not me!
Advice on better PPE should enable me to complete the process.



If they were close enough to disturb the bees then they'd be on MY allotment, presumably scrumping and therefore due the consequences.
Probably straying-Townie ramblers anyway!




We're not in the Town.
All the allotment keepers are happy with the bees, 100%.
How would you propose we pollinate the crops without them?

I think you have a bit of an arrogant attitude you don't know who will come on to your allotment it could be an innocent worker just going about his/her job they wouldn't have a clue whether they were allergic to stings.As regards
pollination honey bees are not the only pollinators.

 

[ericbeaumont]

An allotment beekeeper is forever dancing on thin ice and it's essential to maintain good public relations: keep calm bees, resolve occasional stings with a free jar, explain the value of wasps, paint the bigger picture of bees & the environment, sell honey at a discount, and so on.

The cavalier attitude towards stinging that Martin described would get me booted off my allotment pronto. Far better that he bites the bullet and follows the advice to get rid of the queen.

1 Knowingly keeping excessively defensive bees to protect property may lead down the road to a town called Trouble. 2 Pollination can be done just as easily by calm bees as defensive. 3 Drones with defensive genetics will complicate life (and have already done) for other beekeepers for miles around.

Why do that? Better protection is a red herring: put on extra layers, tape up your boots, get some hands-on support and get in there today.

 

[Anduril]

An allotment beekeeper is forever dancing on thin ice and it's essential to maintain good public relations: keep calm bees, resolve occasional stings with a free jar, explain the value of wasps, paint the bigger picture of bees & the environment, sell honey at a discount, and so on.

The cavalier attitude towards stinging that Martin described would get me booted off my allotment pronto. Far better that he bites the bullet and follows the advice to get rid of the queen.

1 Knowingly keeping excessively defensive bees to protect property may lead down the road to a town called Trouble. 2 Pollination can be done just as easily by calm bees as defensive. 3 Drones with defensive genetics will complicate life (and have already done) for other beekeepers for miles around.

Why do that? Better protection is a red herring: put on extra layers, tape up your boots, get some hands-on support and get in there today.

An hour or two of sweating in thick clothes will be worth it. If you are wearing leather gloves, cover them with nitrile gloves, it helps to hide the alarm pheromone. But it is still better to do it in another location, even moving them in the same location to drain off the foragers. One alternative, kill the queen move all the brood frames into another occupied hive without bees on them and then transfer the brood frames from that other hive into the now queenless hive for them to make a new queen with different genetics. This way you are only moving frames of brood not bees. However you will have a lot of bees in the air.

 

[JonnyPicklechin]

As I suppose I was the previous bad hive champion for this season (see threads on beginners area) I can make some comment based on experience from my urban garden all of which derived from the great advice on this board:

* To points made about moving hive and leaving box for flyers: If you cant move the whole hive (which I couldn't) it is very effective if you seal the box at night with the box full of flyers and then move it away after dark or in the morning. If they are as bad as you say they are and the locale is at risk, this will buy you a good 2 -3 weeks as foraging force has to start up again in the original replaced hive, which is much of the time you need for the requeen-genetics to work...It is pf course the foragers who form 633 Squadron in your back garden. If you can give the flyer bees box, BIAS and and some food and they are the requisite distance to not return (2-3 miles away) you can bring them back later and merge them with another calm hive.

* I found the new queen pheromone calmed them down a wee bit, instantly. This was measure by the "attack perimeter" being reduced to 5-10 feet from the hive and over time, down to less than 5 feet. This still means they are feisty on inspection and it will take a while to get them to calm down completely.

* I have 3 other burgeoning colonies from the same lineage (small apiary growing to big one through splits etc) and I am seeing similar defensiveness unfortunately....However, mercifully nothing like the attack from the original hive. I am going to requeen all of these at some point (anyone with pussycat queens who can sell me or grant me any are most welcome to inbox me.)

* I have a BJ Sherriff suit and have only been once stung through it because I had shorts on underneath and the now deceased got stuck in the crease at the back of me knee.

Hope thats useful...

 

[MartinL]

I have a BJ Sherriff suit and have only been once stung through it because I had shorts on underneath and the now deceased got stuck in the crease at the back of me knee.

Hope thats useful...

Thanks for info on your Sheriff, which model is it?
I've not been stung through my suit before so it was a bit of a surprise.

. . . . . . . . - move the problem hive a few yards away and leave an empty brood box in it's place, wait an hour, all the flying (more aggressive) bees will be at the old location leaving the queen and nurse bees in a much depleted hive,

Sounds a reasonable course to follow, I'll seal them in tonight.


With a Birthday just around the corner Sheriff & BB-Wear also comes to mind, still looking for real-time experience of these suits though??

Although Sheriff B36 net lined suit comes a little outside of SWMBO's expected budget at nearly £400!

 

[Spikedog]

Monday last moved brood box to another stand some 40ft+ away, found queen and dispatched her. Long sleeved vest, jumper and the suit allowed no stings (very warm)- Some in your face activity on return to reset the hive - Their behaviour was such as to be a potential danger or nuisance to others... not worth it as a hobbyist. JMB and others are correct - move and allow the Foragers fly back. Good Luck.