Kingspan Insulation in Eke

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hemo 

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Shop around if buying new, prices vary a lot.
Wickes £42 50mm sheet at my local.
My local building supplier £29.03 50mm Mannock brand sheet.
Selco £38.87 50mm Iko brand sheet.
 

hemo 

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With bee stores for winter you need to look at it as fuel for bees to keep warm, the warmer the interior and at a reasonable constant draft free temperature then the less fuel wasted, often it is the latter part of winter when colony mortality may take place.
 

AlanJ 

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For insulation in an eke above the crown board to work properly, it needs to trap a layer of warm air underneath it to keep the crown board warm, which is the whole point of the exercise.. The bees obviously don't have access to this airspace, so if the eke does not sit perfectly on the hive box below, they are unable to help you in their usual way of sealing-up any gaps with propolis.
So I now fit draught-excluder strip around the bottom edges of the insulated ekes to ensure a good seal.
If you are putting insulation in the roof instead of using an eke, you might consider fitting draught-excluder to the surfaces in the roof that rest on the top edges of the hive box.
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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If you are putting insulation in the roof instead of using an eke, you might consider fitting draught-excluder to the surfaces in the roof that rest on the top edges of the hive box.
Why? the PIR should sit directly on the crownboard
 

AlanJ 

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To get the full-benefit of foil-faced insulation, I read that the reflective surface needs an air-gap to function.
Using 50mm x 25mm timber for the eke with 25mm kingspan insulation plus the draught excluder gives about a 20mm airspace: just enough to fit in some fondant in an inverted plastic tray.
So finally I'm now able to feed fondant over the feed hole, where I can keep an eye on it, but still under the insulation.
 

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To get the full-benefit of foil-faced insulation, I read that the reflective surface needs an air-gap to function.
Using 50mm x 25mm timber for the eke with 25mm kingspan insulation plus the draught excluder gives about a 20mm airspace: just enough to fit in some fondant in an inverted plastic tray.
So finally I'm now able to feed fondant over the feed hole, where I can keep an eye on it, but still under the insulation.
That sounds complicated,
My crownboards have a 50mm eke on one side which I fill with PIR, I make a 150mm pocket in the insulation where I can put fondant in a takeaway container over the hole in the middle of the crown board. I then place a layer of insulation over that. The heat from the cluster keeps the pocket warm and always accessible for foragers looking for food during cold weather.
IMG_4720.jpg
 

jenkinsbrynmair 

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To get the full-benefit of foil-faced insulation, I read that the reflective surface needs an air-gap to function.
Using 50mm x 25mm timber for the eke with 25mm kingspan insulation plus the draught excluder gives about a 20mm airspace: just enough to fit in some fondant in an inverted plastic tray.
So finally I'm now able to feed fondant over the feed hole, where I can keep an eye on it, but still under the insulation.
you need to read a bit more - PIR/Kingspan doesn't need any air gaps the foil is just there for protection.
 

Murox 

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To get the full-benefit of foil-faced insulation, I read that the reflective surface needs an air-gap to function.
Using 50mm x 25mm timber for the eke with 25mm kingspan insulation plus the draught excluder gives about a 20mm airspace: just enough to fit in some fondant in an inverted plastic tray.
So finally I'm now able to feed fondant over the feed hole, where I can keep an eye on it, but still under the insulation.
you need to read a bit more - PIR/Kingspan doesn't need any air gaps the foil is just there for protection.
Air gaps are for houses - foil of a highly reflective material, reflects radiant heat rather than reducing heat conduction like thermal insulation.
 

Beebe 

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Somehow it's escalated to seven.
.....but if an air gap is a requirement, this needs a full thickness edging of your PIR material in a width to match. If not done this way, the space under the insulation will get condensation.
 

Markthebuilder 

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talk to your local district or unitary council about the 'LADS2 ' Local Authority Delivery Scheme that the Government is giving large sums of money to councils for wall insulation, air source heat pumps and stuff like that. EPC needs to be D rating or lower. grants are up to £10k. there are some challenges, the installer needs to be TrustMark registered and there are not loads of those out there. Also costs for typical external wall insulation has shot up. used to be about £8k for a semi, now more like £13k. opportunism as well as genuine material and contractor cost increases. still worth trying to see what you can get.
You probably need to be earning less than 30k as well.
Alternativly formally rent your home to a pensioner relative , put council tax and electric in their name and get them to make the application… doing it this way you may need to contribute about 25%
 

Markthebuilder 

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Don’t worry about any air gap adjacent to the foil covering in the context of insulating a hive it isn’t relevant. ( yes the foil is there to reflect radiant heat but more Importantly it is there as a vapour control layer to prevent interstitial condensation within the insulation.
As others have said condensation will occur on the coldest surface.. FIRST but it will occur on any surface that is at or lower than the dew point temperature of the air.
ensuring insulation over the top of the bees is a priority. (Prevents drips)
If you provide an insulated jacket / rap around the outside of a wooden hive. the water vapour in theory will travel through the wood and condensate on the foil surface of the insulation- this is because the wood itself offers some insulation and the inside surface of the wood will be warmer than the surface of the insulation closest to the hive.
Hope that makes sense and helps.
 

Jules59 

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With a WBC it was traditional to fill the space between the lifts and the hives with straw or other insulating material in winter - bear in mind they were invented by William Broughton Carr (a good Yorkshireman) for the viscious winters that used to be characteristic in Yorkshire. To be honest, in the midlands, you don't get the winters we used to get up North so I rather suspect that you will have enough with your 50mm of Kingspan above the crownboard without adding further insulation - but .. you have more than one hive - try it with one and see how you get on ? The things that adding insulation brings to a hive is that they eat less of their stores and they tend to build up quicker in spring ... you have the chance to compare on a side by side basis.
ok - good idea - a little experiment to do over winter
 

Poly Hive 

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I'll mention that when what we now call OMF floors were "invented" the work was being done to improve Wintering. This was decades before varroa. The research showed that the ventilated floors worked best with top insulation over the CB. The work was done by Rennie (I think) at Craibstone and I may have a pamphlet here covering it. The trouble is I am in a temp office and my stuff is everywhere.

I don't use foil backed insulation as I have never had it around. I use blue or pink floor mate which cuts beautifully on the table saw and a dab of glue and two screws makes an eke. Some of mine must now be well over 10 years old and still serviceable.
 

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Somehow it's escalated to seven.
I'll mention that when what we now call OMF floors were "invented" the work was being done to improve Wintering. This was decades before varroa. The research showed that the ventilated floors worked best with top insulation over the CB. The work was done by Rennie (I think) at Craibstone and I may have a pamphlet here covering it. The trouble is I am in a temp office and my stuff is everywhere.

I don't use foil backed insulation as I have never had it around. I use blue or pink floor mate which cuts beautifully on the table saw and a dab of glue and two screws makes an eke. Some of mine must now be well over 10 years old and still serviceable.
As you'll know, extruded polystyrene has a better "R"-value and greater rigidity/compressibility resistance to compression as well.
 
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Foxylad 

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I don't use foil backed insulation as I have never had it around. I use blue or pink floor mate which cuts beautifully on the table saw and a dab of glue and two screws makes an eke.
Have you a picture Poly Hive?
 

Poly Hive 

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I take it you mean the ekes not me? *chuckles* These are for 5 frame Nat nucs but the same idea works for whatever hive you have. These are 25mm and I also use 50mm for colonies.

PH
 

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jenkinsbrynmair 

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I'll mention that when what we now call OMF floors were "invented" the work was being done to improve Wintering. This was decades before varroa. The research showed that the ventilated floors worked best with top insulation over the CB. The work was done by Rennie (I think) at Craibstone and I may have a pamphlet here covering it. The trouble is I am in a temp office and my stuff is everywhere.

I don't use foil backed insulation as I have never had it around. I use blue or pink floor mate which cuts beautifully on the table saw and a dab of glue and two screws makes an eke. Some of mine must now be well over 10 years old and still serviceable.
Michael Palmer posted a photo of an OMF he saw out in Ireland dated around 1900-1910
 

Foxylad 

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I take it you mean the ekes not me? *chuckles* These are for 5 frame Nat nucs but the same idea works for whatever hive you have. These are 25mm and I also use 50mm for colonies.

PH
thank you for the photo.
Was more thinking more of the floor mate insulation. Been given a load of 100mm cavity insulation. But it’s not PIR it’s more foam. reminds me of the stuff florists use, osmosis? Been trying to think of a use for it. it appears water proof but not sure over a prolonged period if it would course damp.
 

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To be honest, in the midlands, you don't get the winters we used to get up North
Yes, I remember the winter of '47 in Mexborough - one of the coldest ever and made worse by the miners' strike. Just boasting.........
 
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