Just found dead queen, what to do?

[leonotron]

I carried out an inspection yesterday, nothing out of the ordinary.
Today I noticed the bees a little agitated. I thought it might have been due to some wasps that are hanging around. About 30 minutes ago I went out to take a look just to see if any wasps were getting in perhaps. Colony seems pretty strong so I don't think any were making it through the entrance. I then noticed that the workers were carrying dead bees out of the hive. I was looking on the grass and found a number of them. Then I spotted the queen where she had been dumped out too. She wasn't in good condition, wings missing too (she wasn't clipped).
Being new to bee keeping this year I'm not sure what to do. Should I open the hive and take a look or just leave them at it for now? Should I be worried about what's going on in the hive? I spotted her during inspection yesterday and was very careful with her when I was putting the frame back in but could I have crushed her by accident?

 

[leonotron]

Here's a picture of how she looked along another with a worker for scale.

 

[pargyle]

I carried out an inspection yesterday, nothing out of the ordinary.
Today I noticed the bees a little agitated. I thought it might have been due to some wasps that are hanging around. About 30 minutes ago I went out to take a look just to see if any wasps were getting in perhaps. Colony seems pretty strong so I don't think any were making it through the entrance. I then noticed that the workers were carrying dead bees out of the hive. I was looking on the grass and found a number of them. Then I spotted the queen where she had been dumped out too. She wasn't in good condition, wings missing too (she wasn't clipped).
Being new to bee keeping this year I'm not sure what to do. Should I open the hive and take a look or just leave them at it for now? Should I be worried about what's going on in the hive? I spotted her during inspection yesterday and was very careful with her when I was putting the frame back in but could I have crushed her by accident?

If you inspected yesterday you are not going to see a lot more and as long as you are sure it was your queen on the ground you won't gain anything apart from grief from queenless bees. From your inspection:

Firstly, How many dead bees did you see ? Was your queen in this condition when you saw her yesterday ... you are sure that you don't have a new queen in there and this was the body of the old one that had been superceded ?

Were there any signs in the hive of bees with any signs of disease (DWV) etc. that would indicate why you have dead bees ? Were they under attack from wasps ? Is it just drones being kicked out ? Did you treat the hive with anything ?

If none of the above ... and you definitely have no queen in the hive. You can either let them rear another one themselves (but by the time they've done that you will be lucky to get her mated ..)

Or ... get on the internet or speak to your beekeeping mates and get another queen now !

 

[Suzi Q]

Looks like she drowned.

 

[Stiffy]

It may be the angle the photo was taken but she seems a little small to me?
Its getting a bit late in the year now to let them rear another one so
either way your best bet is to beg borrow or s... (well maybe not) buy a queen from someone.
S

 

[leonotron]

I haven't noticed any queen cells at all so I don't think there would be a new queen. She looked to be in good condition yesterday when I saw her. They did seem to be running out of space so I took out a frame of honey and replace it with foundation, thinking this would give them more room. I didn't think adding a super at this time was a good idea. There wasn't any signs of disease. I haven't treated them with anything yet. I didn't see any drones expelled, just workers. Maybe about ten or so but I stopped looking when I spotted the queen. The wasps seem to be small in number, I've only seem them attack a bee once. I have traps out but they don't seem to be working. They seem to hover around the ground a lot and the odd one or two tries to get in but never does.
Suzi Q: What makes you think she drowned?

Thanks for the fast replies.

 

[troedyrhiw]

Looking at the picture it looks like she's been squashed (looks like insides on the outside near a tear), that would be so unlucky if it did

 

[Skyhook]

First, wait.

Either you squashed her yesterday (and you wouldn't be the first), or they have superceded. Assuming there were eggs at your inspection yesterday, the evidence will be if there are queen cells, and a good time to view this would be 4 days from yesterday.

If there are eggs, then they have a queen- worker eggs are only eggs for 3 days.

If there are no eggs but no QCs then either they had no eggs or young larvae to raise a queen from, or they have a queen that hasn't started laying yet. The way to be certain would be to add a test frame ( but if you saw eggs yesterday this shouldn't be needed).

If there are QCs then you squashed the queen and they are raising emergency cells. Hopefully they've been good girls and used eggs or 1-day larvae- any that are capped at this stage must be from older larvae. Pick one or 2 nice open cells and destroy the rest.

If they've superceded then all is well. If not then it's not a good time to be raising a new queen, but leaving them a cell will keep them happy while you look for a replacement. If anyone has queens for sale (now, not in a while), or you have a nuc you could combine with for example, then this would be the better option.


.

 

[pargyle]

I haven't noticed any queen cells at all so I don't think there would be a new queen. She looked to be in good condition yesterday when I saw her. They did seem to be running out of space so I took out a frame of honey and replace it with foundation, thinking this would give them more room. I didn't think adding a super at this time was a good idea. There wasn't any signs of disease. I haven't treated them with anything yet. I didn't see any drones expelled, just workers. Maybe about ten or so but I stopped looking when I spotted the queen. The wasps seem to be small in number, I've only seem them attack a bee once. I have traps out but they don't seem to be working. They seem to hover around the ground a lot and the odd one or two tries to get in but never does.
Suzi Q: What makes you think she drowned?

Thanks for the fast replies.

10 bees on the ground is nothing to worry about ... probably just normal death rate. Wasps clear up the dead bodies - as long as they are not trying to get into the hive en-mass they are no worry either, guard bees in a strong colony should keep them out.

If your queen has gone and you are sure she wasn't superceded you are best to get a new one ... soon as possible before they start trying to raise their own or you get DLW's.

Some good additional advice for checking situation now from Skyhook above ....

 

[leonotron]

It may be the angle the photo was taken but she seems a little small to me?
Its getting a bit late in the year now to let them rear another one so
either way your best bet is to beg borrow or s... (well maybe not) buy a queen from someone.
S

She did seem a little small to me but I'm pretty sure it's the queen. When I got the colony on June 28th I did see another bee with some yellow paint that confused me but I don't think it's that one. I thought maybe her abdomen had retracted a bit after she died. Here's another photo with two angles.

 

[leonotron]

Assuming there were eggs at your inspection yesterday, the evidence will be if there are queen cells, and a good time to view this would be 4 days from yesterday.

I can look on Friday morning, will this be ok instead of four full days? I have to go away for work until Monday. Really bad timing.

If there are eggs, then they have a queen- worker eggs are only eggs for 3 days.

There were plenty of eggs and brood yesterday.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Everything seems to run late this year so you may well get her daughter well mated. She looks well mauled, so superseded i guess. Gd it's brutal, eh? So far this year red queens look excellent, although I accept it is now very late. My guess is you're in good shape at the end of it all but lining up an emergency replacement is a good idea.

 

[HM Honey]

How thorough are your inspections? Any chance you could have missed a supercedure cell? They are usually in the middle of a frame I believe but one of my hives replaced the queen earlier this year and the cell was right in the bottom corner of the frame, and there was only one. I nearly missed it on inspection.

 

[Tom Bick]

If you missed a supercedutre cell then this could have been s couple of weeks ago. If by mistake you killed the queen in a few days you will have emergency queen cells.

 

[REDWOOD]

A little bit confusing having 2 marked queens from last year, The supplier could have sold you a nuc and accidentally put 2 queens in but they would have fort for supremacy or found two queens (under supersede) and marked them both and now is the kicking out time

 

[HM Honey]

A little bit confusing having 2 marked queens from last year, The supplier could have sold you a nuc and accidentally put 2 queens in but they would have fort for supremacy or found two queens (under supersede) and marked them both and now is the kicking out time

Where did you get 2 queens from Redwood?

 

[leonotron]

My inspections were thorough. Anything that looked like a queen cell I always double checked, like some play cups I've been noticing. Maybe I did miss something though. They are really agitated though. I've never seen them as bad as they are today. If there was a new supercedure queen would they be like this?
Redwood: I don't think the other marked one was a queen. Looked like she just got some paint on her by accident. I spotted her again on inspection the following week or possibly two but I haven't seen her since.

 

[REDWOOD]

She did seem a little small to me but I'm pretty sure it's the queen. When I got the colony on June 28th I did see another bee with some yellow paint that confused me but I don't think it's that one. I thought maybe her abdomen had retracted a bit after she died. Here's another photo with two angles.

 

[HM Honey]

My inspections were thorough. Anything that looked like a queen cell I always double checked, like some play cups I've been noticing. Maybe I did miss something though. They are really agitated though. I've never seen them as bad as they are today. If there was a new supercedure queen would they be like this?
Redwood: I don't think the other marked one was a queen. Looked like she just got some paint on her by accident. I spotted her again on inspection the following week or possibly two but I haven't seen her since.

Hi leonotron

I'm not experienced enough to say with any confidence what has made them grumpy. I know they are grumpy when they are queenless but they can also be grumpy for many other reasons.

I inspected my hives this weekend and three of them were lovely to be in, but the fourth one was aggressive to the point of frenzy....they followed me round the garden for about 5 minutes....lol

The aggressive hive had plenty of stores, a good laying queen, BIAS, no signs of disease, weather was sunny......so you tell me why they were in a bad mood? Maybe something I did, maybe they were just in a bad mood.

I may have missed it but did you confirm the presence of eggs when you last inspected?

 

[sandysman]

First, wait.

Either you squashed her yesterday (and you wouldn't be the first), or they have superceded. Assuming there were eggs at your inspection yesterday, the evidence will be if there are queen cells, and a good time to view this would be 4 days from yesterday.

If there are eggs, then they have a queen- worker eggs are only eggs for 3 days.

If there are no eggs but no QCs then either they had no eggs or young larvae to raise a queen from, or they have a queen that hasn't started laying yet. The way to be certain would be to add a test frame ( but if you saw eggs yesterday this shouldn't be needed).

If there are QCs then you squashed the queen and they are raising emergency cells. Hopefully they've been good girls and used eggs or 1-day larvae- any that are capped at this stage must be from older larvae. Pick one or 2 nice open cells and destroy the rest.

If they've superceded then all is well. If not then it's not a good time to be raising a new queen, but leaving them a cell will keep them happy while you look for a replacement. If anyone has queens for sale (now, not in a while), or you have a nuc you could combine with for example, then this would be the better option.


.

Andy