Is this an Asian Hornet ?

[viridens]

even more so when the hornet pictured balling the wasp is crabro and not velutina regardless of the term giant.

q.e.d.

 

[Karol]

QED indeed but maybe still a bit subtle for many to grasp especially the lay campers and ramblers that are being recruited to the cause.

 

[Trunkles]

The campervan theory is an interesting one, but I don't really understand the aim of the car stickers etc. Please explain.

Any form of advertising the presence of Asian HOrnet as a threat to UK bee and insect species and especially to the camping fraternity is a good thing and car stickers are one way of getting the message across.

We want campers to be able to recognize Vespa velutina queens so that they might(I say might, there are no guarantees but might is better than will not) spot it if one enters their unit in autumn, or on the other hand if they come across one flying around in their unit on a warm day in February or March, or indeed see one flying off into the distance. I the last ase a report would give bee keepers a chance of preparing for a possible invasion.

Also If campers on the continent spot lots of these insects flying around they may decide not to camp near to a nest which may be producing queens. If you do see lots of them then look up into the tree tops; the nest will be obvious as it will be about 0.5mtr in diameter and hanging in the branches.
European Hornets do not build in the branches bu in hollows in trees.

Our aim is to create a campaign like the Colorado Beetle Campaign in the 1950s and 1960s and that was considered to be very effective in stopping the importation of that insect

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The campervan theory is an interesting one, but I don't really understand the aim of the car stickers etc. Please explain.

If you're stuck behind a caravan, the likelihood is that you will be there for hours travelling at slow speed - ample time to read the sticker and memorise every subtle nuance of what an asian hornet looks like.

 

[viridens]

If you're stuck behind a caravan, the likelihood is that you will be there for hours travelling at slow speed - ample time to read the sticker and memorise every subtle nuance of what an asian hornet looks like.

I like your explanation best.

 

[mazzamazda]

Any form of advertising the presence of Asian HOrnet as a threat to UK bee and insect species and especially to the camping fraternity is a good thing and car stickers are one way of getting the message across.

We want campers to be able to recognize Vespa velutina queens so that they might(I say might, there are no guarantees but might is better than will not) spot it if one enters their unit in autumn, or on the other hand if they come across one flying around in their unit on a warm day in February or March, or indeed see one flying off into the distance. I the last ase a report would give bee keepers a chance of preparing for a possible invasion.

Also If campers on the continent spot lots of these insects flying around they may decide not to camp near to a nest which may be producing queens. If you do see lots of them then look up into the tree tops; the nest will be obvious as it will be about 0.5mtr in diameter and hanging in the branches.
European Hornets do not build in the branches bu in hollows in trees.

Our aim is to create a campaign like the Colorado Beetle Campaign in the 1950s and 1960s and that was considered to be very effective in stopping the importation of that insect

My take on this is you are probably better making the hornets come to you too. Why dont you try and set up traps for the queens, I'm not talking the rubbish NBA endorse. Every year, without fail I have VV in empty nucs, I can guarantee I'll have queens in some outside now, It is always quite scary checking them in the spring. A bird box would do great.

I doubt you would see VV queens pouring out of a nest, I usually see a few flying around looking for somewhere to hide, easily spotted as they fly really slowly compared to workers and are great to swat really hard. The nests usually appear after all the queens have left and the leaves on the trees have gone, not before. Good luck!

 

[Trunkles]

My take on this is you are probably better making the hornets come to you too. Why dont you try and set up traps for the queens, I'm not talking the rubbish NBA endorse. Every year, without fail I have VV in empty nucs, I can guarantee I'll have queens in some outside now, It is always quite scary checking them in the spring. A bird box would do great.

I doubt you would see VV queens pouring out of a nest, I usually see a few flying around looking for somewhere to hide, easily spotted as they fly really slowly compared to workers and are great to swat really hard. The nests usually appear after all the queens have left and the leaves on the trees have gone, not before. Good luck!

In the UK we have no experience of what to expect. Some of us think they could already be here and at this time of year the only evidence would be nests. Who would spot them? Primaries low down: people with their heads in the bushes Secondaries high in trees: people looking up and about. OK if we did spot a nest now we know there would be nothing to kill, but we would know where ( within 60k radius ) they might appear as the new nests get established. So we warn bee keepers in that area to be on the alert.


Your Idea of larger 'traps' is a new idea and worth looking at. We know the NBU recommended type will only be OK in the spring and some of us are concerned about the beneficials that get trapped and killed as collateral damage.

 

[mazzamazda]

Why dont you organise a few days in Porto, Portugal, a long weekend of Asian hornet catching, I can show you all what to look for, you can trap, experiment, look for nests, I can show you the way I deal with them and you can make your own ideas on how you will deal with them. We can visit local beekeepers and help them and chat about options. You will see the worst and then have the first hand experience of what they are about and be absolutely prepared for the very worst.

In the UK we have no experience of what to expect. Some of us think they could already be here and at this time of year the only evidence would be nests. Who would spot them? Primaries low down: people with their heads in the bushes Secondaries high in trees: people looking up and about. OK if we did spot a nest now we know there would be nothing to kill, but we would know where ( within 60k radius ) they might appear as the new nests get established. So we warn bee keepers in that area to be on the alert. Attached is a queen with a very early nest.


Your Idea of larger 'traps' is a new idea and worth looking at. We know the NBU recommended type will only be OK in the spring and some of us are concerned about the beneficials that get trapped and killed as collateral damage.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Why dont you organise a few days in Porto, Portugal, a long weekend of Asian hornet catching, I can show you all what to look for, you can trap, experiment, look for nests, I can show you the way I deal with them and you can make your own ideas on how you will deal with them. We can visit local beekeepers and help them and chat about options. You will see the worst and then have the first hand experience of what they are about and be absolutely prepared for the very worst.

Heavens. Well done Mark. What a wonderful offer.

 

[Karol]

In the UK we have no experience of what to expect. Some of us think they could already be here and at this time of year the only evidence would be nests. Who would spot them? Primaries low down: people with their heads in the bushes Secondaries high in trees: people looking up and about. OK if we did spot a nest .......<snip>QUOTE]

If people find it hard to differentiate between adult crabro and velutina how are they going to differentiate empty nests from vulgaris, median, sylvestris, norwegica, saxonica, etc etc?

 

[mazzamazda]

Heavens. Well done Mark. What a wonderful offer.

Thanks! I'm more than happy to help, its a huge problem here, I have already had a customer this week who has lost 20 out of 60 hives and this is an email received just tonight

Boa noite.
Ainda tem enxames?
Sou de Famalicão e quero repor o meu apiário, uma vez que morreram alguns enxames
atacados pelas asiáticas.

Roughly google translated to

Good evening.
Still have swarms?
I am from Famalicão and want to replace my apiary, since some swarms have died
attacked by the Asians.

Nothing better than hands on experience so if the worst happens. We live approx 5 mins from the airport and am happy to collect from there or Porto centre.

 

[Trunkles]

In the UK we have no experience of what to expect. Some of us think they could already be here and at this time of year the only evidence would be nests. Who would spot them? Primaries low down: people with their heads in the bushes Secondaries high in trees: people looking up and about. OK if we did spot a nest .......<snip>QUOTE]

If people find it hard to differentiate between adult crabro and velutina how are they going to differentiate empty nests from vulgaris, median, sylvestris, norwegica, saxonica, etc etc?

Why do people find it difficult to differentiate between adult crabro and velutina? Crabro abdomen is bright yellow with black markings and other main parts of body are brown. Velutina abdomen is black/brown with one orangey yellow segment and most of the rest of the body is black. If we were concerned with on of the other colour variants of V.v then maybe there could be confusion. But it is V.v nigrithorax that is endemic in France and and what we are concerned with

Isn't nest size the key to spotting Velutina nests high in trees?. The ones I have seen stood out very plainly from quite a distance in deciduous trees in winter.
Have a look here:
http://perigordvacance.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345192c169e20120a7f6c1ed970b-pi

And the position of secondary nest is a giveaway too. few of the others species mentioned above place their nests high in trees, as I understand from my reading.

Its almost as if V.v is shouting out "here we are, come and get us!"

If, and its a big if, V.v is already established in the UK we are not seeing it because we are not looking. Bee keepers are expecting to see it, if at all, at their hives, as Martyn Hocking did in Woolacombe. But other people who might see it elsewhere are not yet looking. That's the point of the Devon initiative campaign to get people to look for it if they know what it looks like from the posters and plentiful comparative pictures available. Of course we hope very much that V.v is not yet establish in the UK and that is why we are not seeing it.....but just in case, we should be looking. When we get complacent in our thinking its not here, that is the time it will arrive in force.

 

[Beefriendly]

You want people who frequently look upwards into trees with binoculars....not ramblers who are more concerned with not losing their footing.
Bird watchers are a possible answer...contact the RSPB.

 

[For want of a better word]

You want people who frequently look upwards into trees with binoculars....not ramblers who are more concerned with not losing their footing.
Bird watchers are a possible answer...contact the RSPB.

AND of course the " Ammeter" entomologists who run around everywhere tryin to catch butterflies, moths and other insects for their collections!
Bumble bee conservation is big here in the South West.... lack of neo niks to kill em off!!

Mytten da

 

[mazzamazda]

Its almost as if V.v is shouting out "here we are, come and get us!"

Yes you do see them in winter but the aren't saying "here we are, come and get us!" they are saying "you missed us and we already dispursed hundreds of queens GOOD LUCK!"

 

[viridens]

Trunkles

Don't forget that Wayne and Kylie Public usually can't tell a Honeybee from a Wasp, and any kind of Hornet is likely to be labelled giant, and adding a Linnaean name doesn't help them. Volucella zonaria further confuses the issue.

Incidentally, Volucella zonaria is a frequent visitor to my garden from mainland Europe, and seems to be attracted to to hives.

 

[viridens]

Further to my last post:
I have seen plenty in the local woodlands too.

 

[Finman]

Further to my last post:
I have seen plenty in the local woodlands too.

Wasp mimicing fly

.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

If you're stuck behind a caravan, the likelihood is that you will be there for hours travelling at slow speed - ample time to read the sticker and memorise every subtle nuance of what an asian hornet looks like.

Fish and chip shop queues are good spots to display posters. Folks waiting to be served read anything to pass the time.

 

[Karol]

Why do people find it difficult to differentiate between adult crabro and velutina? Crabro abdomen is bright yellow with black markings and other main parts of body are brown. Velutina abdomen is black/brown with one orangey yellow segment and most of the rest of the body is black. If we were concerned with on of the other colour variants of V.v then maybe there could be confusion. But it is V.v nigrithorax that is endemic in France and and what we are concerned with

So how do you account for the large volume of false alerts? Viridens posted a link to a Sun article which falsely identified crabro as velutina! That's the denominator that you'll be working to.

Velutina is a specialist hunter. Her preferred method of hunting is hawking other eusocial insects, i.e. hovering just outside the entrance and pouncing on transiting foragers. Velutina has to hunt this way because she is top of her food chain and has a large biomass to support in terms of her own nest - so she has to be efficient and has to hunt in volume and she needs the right kind of environment. Landfall of velutina in the UK will IMHO invariably be detected at hives and other high insect density sites such as ivy.

My concern is that mobilizing Joe public to hunt for velutina will generate countless thousands of false alerts which will detract time, energy and resource from where it is needed most, i.e. around hives. My fear is that such an initiative will be counter productive because those the resources needed to fight genuine velutina landfalls will be swamped by false alerts and will be unavailable to deal with the real landfalls when they ultimately occur.

Isn't nest size the key to spotting Velutina nests high in trees?. The ones I have seen stood out very plainly from quite a distance in deciduous trees in winter.
Have a look here:
http://perigordvacance.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345192c169e20120a7f6c1ed970b-pi

And the position of secondary nest is a giveaway too. few of the others species mentioned above place their nests high in trees, as I understand from my reading.

Size of nest and location is not a good indicator for two reasons. Firstly other species of wasp are also capable of building reasonably large size nests and they build them high as well. The second reason is that in the UK it is unlikely that velutina will achieve her full potential because she won't have the same resources to build full size colonies so her nests are likely to be smaller.

Its almost as if V.v is shouting out "here we are, come and get us!"

By the time the leaves fall the nests will be abandoned. And when the leaves fall the nests will be fully exposed to the elements and won't survive long before disintegrating without the maintenance and repair work carried out by resident workers.

If, and its a big if, V.v is already established in the UK we are not seeing it because we are not looking.

I fundamentally can't disagree more. Velutina isn't established and will find it hard to establish herself because the topography and ecology of the UK is very different to her preferred habitat of 'wetland forests' that provide high insect densities and optimum nesting locations.

Bee keepers are expecting to see it, if at all, at their hives, as Martyn Hocking did in Woolacombe. But other people who might see it elsewhere are not yet looking. That's the point of the Devon initiative campaign to get people to look for it if they know what it looks like from the posters and plentiful comparative pictures available. Of course we hope very much that V.v is not yet establish in the UK and that is why we are not seeing it.....but just in case, we should be looking. When we get complacent in our thinking its not here, that is the time it will arrive in force.

Velutina isn't established in the UK. We've had a few landfalls which have not (as yet) resulted in sustained colonisation. I don't believe velutina will arrive in force for a couple of reasons. I don't believe the UK suits velutina very well save for a few small locations. And moreover, if Mazzamazda's method is reproducible then the beekeepers in France and other affected areas will adopt it quite rapidly and if and when they do then the populations of velutina will fall dramatically which in itself will reduce the risk of dissemination into the UK.

What is critical in the fight against velutina IMHO is educating beekeepers not the wider public. If beekeepers know what to do and how to escalate sightings correctly then I doubt that velutina will ever get established. Invoking mass hysteria and creating a flood of false sightings I think will be counter productive however well meaning or well intended.