Is storing supers wet bad for your honey?

[E&MBees]

Yes, lots of ways of doing things. Having them ready to go works for me.
When I stack up the supers over winter, they've either got drawn frames or ready with foundation. Drawn ones stacked outside, foundation ones in the garage. Ratchet strapped together to keep out pests.
I like knowing I can just pick up a box and go without suddenly realising they're all empty frames which I'd thought I'd sorted.

In an ideal world that’s what I would like to do, but my husband has the garage for woodworking and I get the shed!

 

[North End Bees]

In an ideal world that’s what I would like to do, but my husband has the garage for woodworking and I get the shed!

We have half each. Unfortunately that means there's not actually any room for the car!

 

[GuyNir]

I keep my new frames in the bee shed, ready to go with wax foundation. some in closed containers and some in supers stacked.
Never an issue.

 

[Speybee]

Glad to see some sense - over the last few years I've sensed a blinkered obsessiveness amongst hobby beekeepers, everything else can go to hell in a handcart as long as the bees get more than their fair share, an almost scorched earth policy where only the bees' welfare counts, whether it's ants, hornets (the native type) balsam or anything else.
A bit silly really.

I think one of my colonies has found H. Balsam ....well I think it is, as there is a white dot/dash on some of the bees.
Or is it something else? It is only on bees going into the one hive, but not any others.
The photo attached has the bee with white dot/dash in the centre area of the landing strip.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think one of my colonies has found H. Balsam ....well I think it is, as there is a white dot/dash on some of the bees.
Or is it something else? It is only on bees going into the one hive, but not any others.
The photo attached has the bee with white dot/dash in the centre area of the landing strip.

Looks like balsam, seldom see a decent crop from it around here, I think the bees mostly visit it for pollen

 

[Speybee]

We are not supposed to be an area where H Balsam has reached.
Not seen it yet on any walks, but bees have found it so it must be somewhere near and another pollen source for them.
If they are happy, then so am I!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We are not supposed to be an area where H Balsam has reached.
Not seen it yet on any walks, but bees have found it so it must be somewhere near and another pollen source for them.
If they are happy, then so am I!

There are other flowers that cover the bees in pollen - the 'stripe' comes from the fact the bees can't reach back to clean that bit

 

[bobba]

But what you haven't grasped is that the bees clean out the old honey and thoroughly sanitise the cells before different bees put new nectar in it. If you understand that you can instantly see why wet supers don't matter a jot. They don't simply put new nectar into old honey. The supers are cleaned out after extraction or in the following spring in exactly the same way

My peanut does (just about!) "grasp" the fact that bees will clean/sanitise the old super first.

My concern is that when you put on a wet super, as the bees clean it, they may store some of that old honey in another super.

So the real question is when bees eat/collect some old honey and reprocess/store it, is it as good as new again? Or can the crystallization property's of the old honey be transferred to new.

I want to believe its as good as new and apreciate you lot are likly right, but I cannot get the niggiling doubt out of my mind.

 

[GuyNir]

My peanut does (just about!) "grasp" the fact that bees will clean/sanitise the old super first.

My concern is that when you put on a wet super, as the bees clean it, they may store some of that old honey in another super.

So the real question is when bees eat/collect some old honey and reprocess/store it, is it as good as new again? Or can the crystallization property's of the old honey be transferred to new.

I want to believe its as good as new and apreciate you lot are likly right, but I cannot get the niggiling doubt out of my mind.

With respect, I think you’re overthinking this.

 

[Erichalfbee]

My peanut does (just about!) "grasp" the fact that bees will clean/sanitise the old super first.

My concern is that when you put on a wet super, as the bees clean it, they may store some of that old honey in another super.

So the real question is when bees eat/collect some old honey and reprocess/store it, is it as good as new again? Or can the crystallization property's of the old honey be transferred to new.

I want to believe its as good as new and apreciate you lot are likly right, but I cannot get the niggiling doubt out of my mind.

The honey is eaten. More enzymes are added to it. Some might well end up back in the super but it would have been reprocessed.
No offence with the “grasp” Perhaps it was the only word my head grasped at the time.

 

[bobba]

With respect, I think you’re overthinking this.

guilty as charged lol.

 

[enrico]

I would say that it is a known fact (although it could be a myth) that when bees ingest honey for a second time the honey changes its properties again. For example OSR will not set as solid on the second ingestion. True? I have no idea but I have always believed it!

 

[plain_hunt]

I know a couple of beekeepers who have had severe wax moth in their stored wet supers, although it is quoted that wax moth don’t touch wet supers. But I guess it’s the same as dry, stored correctly, with no access, they ought to be moth proof, wet or dry.

 

[bobba]

I would say that it is a known fact (although it could be a myth) that when bees ingest honey for a second time the honey changes its properties again. For example OSR will not set as solid on the second ingestion. True? I have no idea but I have always believed it!

So reprocessed honey may be better.........hummm

On another note, I was looking at some frames as I was packing my supers up and have found some wax moth damage.

I went on to inspect all my frames holding them up to a bright light. But luckily only a few frames from a single super have signs of damage.

Luckily I had flash frozen all my frames in a box of dry ice before spraying with dipel df, so the damage is minimal.

All my supers have been stored wet in my consevetory. My supers were in a stack divided by boards. Due to a shortage of boards some supers were not divided. Luckily the effected one was separated on its own.

The super with the effected frames had been below a QE when filled in the spring, so had dark brood staining. So I think Swarm is right about moths targeting brood stained frames.

Its interesting to note that of the 3 effected frames, 2 of them had small arrears of uncapped and that is where I found the damage. In the 3rd frame that was fully capped, the moths look to have laid eggs along the bottom of the frame, possibly in the 1/2 cells the bees sometimes leave empty.

Looking on the wooded board below the effected super, I found a little pile of larvae poo. It was directly below one of the damaged frames. I can see the same stuff on effected frames so am sure that's what it is. When inspecting a pull out board for mite count, I noticed another such pile on the board. So unfortunately it looks like I may have a problem in one of my hives too.

I have never seen any mention of looking for moth larvae poo on inspection boards before, but I will be keeping an eye out for it on all future mite counts.

So that's all the proof I need, wet supers are still attacked. Its also worth noting that my only brood stained super was the one that was targeted too.

 

[hemo]

Malva's will get the bees covered in pollen.

 

[Antipodes]

Have you ever tried those fruit tree grease bands or would they eventually get clogged up with ants anyway

Hi Dani,
No I haven't...but thanks for the suggestion. At the moment, as long as I add the water every now and then, it seems to work well enough.

So that's all the proof I need, wet supers are still attacked. Its also worth noting that my only brood stained super was the one that was targeted too.

I know a couple of beekeepers who have had severe wax moth in their stored wet supers, although it is quoted that wax moth don’t touch wet supers. But I guess it’s the same as dry, stored correctly, with no access, they ought to be moth proof, wet or dry.

Freeze for the appropriate time (both the frames and the boxes), and stack so adult moths can't get in.

As Ayton said 30 years ago about storing wet, "...it is..an effective method of partial control because the moths cannot move freely on the sticky surface"

 

[Erichalfbee]

Well wet or dry I have never had wax moth in my supers. It's probably because they are sealed when off the hive. I do occasionally let the bees clear the honey but its a labour having to keep checking whether the supers are empty. It's far less bother for me to take them down to the shed after extracting and forget about them.

 

[mdotb]

Looking on the wooded board below the effected super, I found a little pile of larvae poo. It was directly below one of the damaged frames. I can see the same stuff on effected frames so am sure that's what it is. When inspecting a pull out board for mite count, I noticed another such pile on the board. So unfortunately it looks like I may have a problem in one of my hives too.

I have never seen any mention of looking for moth larvae poo on inspection boards before, but I will be keeping an eye out for it on all future mite counts.

You may find that is wax moth getting onto the inspection board and laying eggs in the capping (undefended by bees, unlike the interior of the hive). I see moth larvae, including their webbing and faeces, in capping build up on the board from time to time and I’m sure I’ve heard others talk about it too. If worried you can check the hive, but if the larvae (or pupae or shed - is it still a chrysalis?) are evident on the board too it’s probably not cause for any concern. Maybe clear off the inspection boards a bit more often?

 

[Patrick1]

I don't put foundation in my frames until I'm ready to use them. This isn't really with wax moth in mind but because I find it much easier to store empty frames without having to worry about damaging the foundation or it getting out of shape. I make up plenty of wooden frames in advance and just bundle them up with a bit of string and hang them in the shed until they're needed. Then when i need them it only takes a minute per frame to slide in the foundation and knock in a couple of pins.

When I had far fewer hives I would put the foundation in the airing cupboard to warm up, the smell was amazing and then make up the frames and foundation and put them into the hives, I am sure the bees drew it out better and quicker because it was all so fresh.

 

[North End Bees]

I have never seen any mention of looking for moth larvae poo on inspection boards before, but I will be keeping an eye out for it on all future mite counts.

Wax moth larvae poo is the frass you see where they have tunnelled under the brood cappings. It is deposited in the tunnel as they move along.
Adult wax moth don't eat at all (so presumably don't poo).
If the inspection tray isn't cleaned regularly you can get a build up of debris which anything and everything will poo and lay in. But if the tray is removed after a week's inspection it should really only have a light dusting of debris.